Elements of Magic, BCCS/True Sorcery, and True20

[Zoatebix]

I'm really curious to know if anyone out there is familiar with both Green Ronin's Black Company Campaign Setting magic system (which was also published separately as True Sorcery), and EN Publishing's Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth. And so are some people over on the True20 Forums.

What do you think of the two systems? What distinguishes them from each other? Why do DCs in BCCS get so high (I think they're ameliorated by "Magnitude," but without the book, I'm not sure)? Is the amount of granularity in the True Sorcery system awesome/necessary/cumbersome/evocative/etc.?

I personally think that Ryan Nock's work on Mythic Earth is pretty fantastic, and I'm adapting it for use in my True20 campaign. (I still need to make some new tradition feats, and re-calibrate how damage scales with spell-level, but other than that I'm satisfied). But I know Henry loves the Black Company/True Sorcery system, and since I trust his opinion, I'm really interested in figuring out what it's all about, and how it compares.

Thanks!
George

 

[igavskoga]

Unfortunately I can't do too much more than pimp BCCS and True Sorcery (in fact, I hardly shut up about it ) since I don't know much about Mythic Earth. I remember glancing over it a few months back and not being grabbed by it. Maybe its about time I flip through it again - it seems to crop up periodically in talks about magic systems.

I can speak to why DC's get so ihgh in BCCS/TS - this is due to the fact that the system is meant to scale up well into epic levels. You don't need an epic Fireball, all you need is Create Energy (Fire) and just tack on as much damage and range as you want. Many of the major villains of the BCCS novels are stated out as 35ish characters. It also ties into their system of being able to blend spell effects together to perform, well, uber spells for lack of a better term. Blend Water Lore, Fear, and Create Energy (Acid) and you've got a fog of acid which does damage over an area and instills fear into those caught within for a duration. Blending is typically the purview of the 15+ range as it tends to skyrocket the DC's involved.

Personally I absolutely love the granularity and especially the modularity of the system, I'll be using it extensively in my d20 homebrew to represent many different disciplines of magic. I'm not sure how much of a plus this is but True Sorcery actually has conversion rules for use with True20. Its also quite a bit cheaper than the BCCS book. Unfortunately I can't be much more help beyond that until I read Mythic Earth.

 

[Zoatebix]

Thanks for the reply, igavskoga! If you want to learn a bit more about Mythic Earth, you could do worse than check out this review here.

It sounds from your description that both BCCS and Mythic Earth have very similar design goals. The two big differences that I can see are that it's easier to "blend" in Mythic Earth, and that Mythic Earth probably wasn't tested with "epic" characters.

I started this thread because I knew the two systems were similar, but it seems that they're even more alike than I thought. Now I really need someone who's familiar with both Either that or I should pick up the True Sorcery pdf for myself.

 

[Zelgadas]

Just found this. It warms my heart to see people posting links to my website. Thanks.

 

[JohnSnow]

I actually own both systems, and I find them reasonably comparable.

I've also had the advantage of discussing each system directly (although not at great length) with the people who designed/wrote them.

Both True Sorcery and Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth are skill-based magic systems that make use of feats for balance purposes. EoM:ME uses 10 spellcasting skills, and assumes you won't have enough skill points to hit DCs that are too high. As a result, it is possible to get some relatively potent effects if you focus.

Ryan Nock (Enworld's own RangerWickett) designed Elements of Magic to be a modular system. He erred on the side of high-powered magic with Mythic Earth because he didn't want wussy casters. And since the focus is d20 Modern, it's got a different "balance point." He's since stated that he's noticed a problem (revealed after publication) with people taking a tradition feat and one skill - such as the fighter who skips taking ranks in Climb to take the magic skill Move instead. He's got a revision of Elements of Magic in the works to account for this. I'm not sure what his planned changes are.

By contrast, Green Ronin's True Sorcery (or the system in the BCCS) is more "low-fantasy" than high-fantasy, until you get to the Epic levels. It's also designed to be infinitely scalable, as igavskoga says. Between the escalating DCs and the Drain, it's a much more down-to-earth magic system. There's also various appendices in True Sorcery for adapting the system for use with Thieves' World, Iron Heroes, and True 20. Overall, I'd say the True Sorcery system is slightly more 'high magic' than BCCS (due to some of the D&Dish spells it adds), but not terribly. It's still tied to the magnitude system, something which fits very well with the flavor of the Black Company setting, but doesn't seem quite as natural in other settings. You can do an awful lot of magic in True Sorcery, but you have to be smart about it. AND your ability to affect wide areas at once is limited. An area effect spell with a 1 mile radius is possible in True Sorcery, but not likely. In Elements of Magic - Mythic Earth, it's definitely doable.

There's some glitchy things. I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to cast a widespread "fog effect" much more cheaply than one can in True Sorcery. But that's a mild complaint on an otherwise superb system.

For the record, some of the Iron Heroes fans (on the IH ezBoard) are looking to modify True Sorcery slightly. While we like (and in some cases, love) the system, some of us feel that it's awfully close to a perfect system, but doesn't quite get there. We're attempting to see if we can modify it into that ideal system - at least for our purposes.