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<blockquote data-quote="Great Cthulhu" data-source="post: 498866" data-attributes="member: 7872">Evoke Black (Element) and Evoke Force (including Evoke Area) mirror each other pretty closely on the amount of dice they use, except for the ray versions. Why does Force suddenly follow the Evoke White pattern for rays instead of the Black pattern it normally imitates? Why were Outsiders exempted from being affected by the Enchantment lists like Charm (Creature) and Dominate (Creature)? I don't see any particular reason that you can't select a Outsider version of these spell lists, and it would cover PC Outsiders as well (tieflings and Asimars, Half-fiends and Half-Celestials).Why is Summon and Conjure (Elementals) capped at 16 Hit Dice vs the 27 Hit Dice for the Outsider versions? There ARE elementals with greater Hit Dice. Or are these just for the Elemental Spirits?Is there any penalty for an Outsider or Elemental besides not going home for the Bind spell lists? There are plenty of minor and major demons that would see the Prime Material Plane as a great place to live (and where they arn't in fear for there very existence every moment of every day like they would be in the Abyss). It seems the Bind spell lists need a bigger stick to make the pact they agreed upon have force.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Great Cthulhu, post: 498866, member: 7872"] Evoke Black (Element) and Evoke Force (including Evoke Area) mirror each other pretty closely on the amount of dice they use, except for the ray versions. Why does Force suddenly follow the Evoke White pattern for rays instead of the Black pattern it normally imitates? Why were Outsiders exempted from being affected by the Enchantment lists like Charm (Creature) and Dominate (Creature)? I don't see any particular reason that you can't select a Outsider version of these spell lists, and it would cover PC Outsiders as well (tieflings and Asimars, Half-fiends and Half-Celestials). Why is Summon and Conjure (Elementals) capped at 16 Hit Dice vs the 27 Hit Dice for the Outsider versions? There ARE elementals with greater Hit Dice. Or are these just for the Elemental Spirits? Is there any penalty for an Outsider or Elemental besides not going home for the Bind spell lists? There are plenty of minor and major demons that would see the Prime Material Plane as a great place to live (and where they arn't in fear for there very existence every moment of every day like they would be in the Abyss). It seems the Bind spell lists need a bigger stick to make the pact they agreed upon have force. [/QUOTE]

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