Particle_Man
Explorer
Note: None of this will make any sense unless you have Elements of Magic (which I am very happy with, for the most part). That said, if you do have it, I look forward to your opinions on this possible modification of the Illusion Force spell list (all comments welcome) (Illusion Force is one of two lists designed to give some reality to the illusions, in this case, some actual damage):
Replace what is in EoM with the following.
Illusion Force: Whether you make a creature, a fireball or a pit, the effect is the same, as far as damage goes. Victim(s) gets one will save for no damage (and one extra one if friends yell “its an illusion”), not a will save each round or “hit”. If the illusion is a creature, the caster can make it auto-“hit” the victims of the illusion up to one time each (although if this is beyond what the creature is capable of, that might give a bonus to the saving throw, or even another saving throw in extreme cases – the illusion should “fit” what the caster is making it do). The "Creature" or “Effect” might seem to do damage by multiple means (or multiple attacks) to a single person, and the victim’s mind would interpret it that way, but the damage would come once, or once/round, in actual fact. The damage would affect anything affected by the illusion.
If the will save is failed, the victim takes temporary damage (see below). If the save is made, the victim won't take damage from that spell. Only creatures in the area of effect can be damaged, even if the illusion creature is meant to be capable of ranged attacks/effects that would go outside the area of effect of the spell. I would suggest that all the MP's of the illusion spell lists (not other spell lists, nor general enhancements) used in this spell be used to calculate damage as if spent on the two regular Evoke enhancements (more damage and/or continuing damage) -- the caster can use these MP's either for a one-time deal, or for continuing damage (for example, paying 4 MP for 1d6 each round over a minute a la Evoke, to reflect damage by a creature in combat, for example. The “free” 1d6 from the evoke cantrip doesn’t count here. Other effects (the gaze of a medusa, etc.) cannot be duplicated.
My new idea: Perhaps we could try a concept of temporary hit point damage (the reverse of temporary hit points)? So the damage would auto-“heal” (assuming the victim is not dead) when the spell duration ceases, or if the victim gets and makes an extra will save, but the damage is real in the meantime (but if a heal spell is cast within the duration of the illusion spell, this damage would be healed last, just as with temporary hit points damage is lost first). The temporary damage could be dispelled from the victim by the Dispel skill, just as spells that grant temporary hit points (like Infuse Nature) can be. Note: the temporary damage cannot be intensified! A successful will save on an intensified spell means the illusion is still seen (or whatever) but does not do damage to the victim.
Illusion Force enhancements: Simple (1) Victim(s) takes ½ temporary damage of the corresponding evoke spell (of whatever element the caster chooses (but it should fit the illusion, and no specific elemental side effects beyond ambient can be chosen)) as if points had been spend on evoke equal to the points spent on the illusion lists components, but also as if the victim has made a fort save for that ½ damage (so if there is a benefit from making a fort save, like the mettle ability, she gains that benefit). Note: even for a signature spell, the “element” of damage does not have to be chosen ahead of time. Standard (3) – Victim(s) must make a fort save to take ½ temporary damage – failure results in full temporary damage. Complex (5) – Victim(s), on failing a will save, must make a fort save (vs. full and total MP effect of the entire spell, including all components) or die! (I love my phantasmal killer ). Well ok, actually they only think/sense they are dead/destroyed, so they take full temporary damage, fall prone, go unconscious (if possible), have all senses “turn off” (if they cannot go unconscious), and are out of combat until the spell duration expires (at which point they recover, but are still prone). If the victim succeeds in her fort save, she takes ½ temporary damage.
Note: taking temporary damage might result in real death. If so, the temporary damage does not go away when the spell duration expires, but ambient effects do.
The double save should take the sting out of some of this (note victim does not get the evoke reflex save, nor does the illusionist need to make an evoke ranged attack – the fort save is meant to substitute for these). An evoker would do better (since the damage is permanent, enhancements for specific elements could be chosen, reflex saves tend to be worse, and illusions have that extra will save for no damage at all), but an illusionist gains flexibility in choosing elements. If you think the pseudo-death effect is too great, you could always require the victim to fail the will save (to be affected at all), a fort save (to avoid full damage), and a reflex save (only if the other two fail – this would avoid “death” if made).
Can an illusion with illusion (force) do any damage to objects? I would say likely not, if this stuff requires a will save. Don’t objects always make their will saves? Mind you, the objects might seem to be damaged by the illusion to those who victims who believe the illusion to be real.
idea: For the complex effect, caster must also have at least one other complex enhancement in either illusion nature or one of the four senses (and one which the victim uses) and at least standard enhancements on all of the 1-4 senses which the victims have. (Smell and Taste count as one and the same sense here). Thus one could use Illusion Force 5/Earth 5/Air 3/Water 3/Fire 3, or (if one has the illusion specialist feat) Illusion Force 5/Ice 3 or Force 5/Metal 3. (Using the negative elements to disguise one sensation as another, rather than negating it altogether). This puts the "phantasmal killer" at a bit higher than the 4th level or 7 spell point spell, which seems about right to me.
Suggestion: Unlike with Charm and Compel, complex illusion force enhancement does not affect mindless creatures beyond what a Standard illusion force enhancement would do – but a simple or standard illusion force enhancement would have full effect, since that affects the senses and is partially real. Exception, if one combines the above spell with at least a "moderate effect" fear enhancement from Charm (the Charm spell list keyed to that type of mindless creature), then one could affect mindless creatures of that type.
Replace what is in EoM with the following.
Illusion Force: Whether you make a creature, a fireball or a pit, the effect is the same, as far as damage goes. Victim(s) gets one will save for no damage (and one extra one if friends yell “its an illusion”), not a will save each round or “hit”. If the illusion is a creature, the caster can make it auto-“hit” the victims of the illusion up to one time each (although if this is beyond what the creature is capable of, that might give a bonus to the saving throw, or even another saving throw in extreme cases – the illusion should “fit” what the caster is making it do). The "Creature" or “Effect” might seem to do damage by multiple means (or multiple attacks) to a single person, and the victim’s mind would interpret it that way, but the damage would come once, or once/round, in actual fact. The damage would affect anything affected by the illusion.
If the will save is failed, the victim takes temporary damage (see below). If the save is made, the victim won't take damage from that spell. Only creatures in the area of effect can be damaged, even if the illusion creature is meant to be capable of ranged attacks/effects that would go outside the area of effect of the spell. I would suggest that all the MP's of the illusion spell lists (not other spell lists, nor general enhancements) used in this spell be used to calculate damage as if spent on the two regular Evoke enhancements (more damage and/or continuing damage) -- the caster can use these MP's either for a one-time deal, or for continuing damage (for example, paying 4 MP for 1d6 each round over a minute a la Evoke, to reflect damage by a creature in combat, for example. The “free” 1d6 from the evoke cantrip doesn’t count here. Other effects (the gaze of a medusa, etc.) cannot be duplicated.
My new idea: Perhaps we could try a concept of temporary hit point damage (the reverse of temporary hit points)? So the damage would auto-“heal” (assuming the victim is not dead) when the spell duration ceases, or if the victim gets and makes an extra will save, but the damage is real in the meantime (but if a heal spell is cast within the duration of the illusion spell, this damage would be healed last, just as with temporary hit points damage is lost first). The temporary damage could be dispelled from the victim by the Dispel skill, just as spells that grant temporary hit points (like Infuse Nature) can be. Note: the temporary damage cannot be intensified! A successful will save on an intensified spell means the illusion is still seen (or whatever) but does not do damage to the victim.
Illusion Force enhancements: Simple (1) Victim(s) takes ½ temporary damage of the corresponding evoke spell (of whatever element the caster chooses (but it should fit the illusion, and no specific elemental side effects beyond ambient can be chosen)) as if points had been spend on evoke equal to the points spent on the illusion lists components, but also as if the victim has made a fort save for that ½ damage (so if there is a benefit from making a fort save, like the mettle ability, she gains that benefit). Note: even for a signature spell, the “element” of damage does not have to be chosen ahead of time. Standard (3) – Victim(s) must make a fort save to take ½ temporary damage – failure results in full temporary damage. Complex (5) – Victim(s), on failing a will save, must make a fort save (vs. full and total MP effect of the entire spell, including all components) or die! (I love my phantasmal killer ). Well ok, actually they only think/sense they are dead/destroyed, so they take full temporary damage, fall prone, go unconscious (if possible), have all senses “turn off” (if they cannot go unconscious), and are out of combat until the spell duration expires (at which point they recover, but are still prone). If the victim succeeds in her fort save, she takes ½ temporary damage.
Note: taking temporary damage might result in real death. If so, the temporary damage does not go away when the spell duration expires, but ambient effects do.
The double save should take the sting out of some of this (note victim does not get the evoke reflex save, nor does the illusionist need to make an evoke ranged attack – the fort save is meant to substitute for these). An evoker would do better (since the damage is permanent, enhancements for specific elements could be chosen, reflex saves tend to be worse, and illusions have that extra will save for no damage at all), but an illusionist gains flexibility in choosing elements. If you think the pseudo-death effect is too great, you could always require the victim to fail the will save (to be affected at all), a fort save (to avoid full damage), and a reflex save (only if the other two fail – this would avoid “death” if made).
Can an illusion with illusion (force) do any damage to objects? I would say likely not, if this stuff requires a will save. Don’t objects always make their will saves? Mind you, the objects might seem to be damaged by the illusion to those who victims who believe the illusion to be real.
idea: For the complex effect, caster must also have at least one other complex enhancement in either illusion nature or one of the four senses (and one which the victim uses) and at least standard enhancements on all of the 1-4 senses which the victims have. (Smell and Taste count as one and the same sense here). Thus one could use Illusion Force 5/Earth 5/Air 3/Water 3/Fire 3, or (if one has the illusion specialist feat) Illusion Force 5/Ice 3 or Force 5/Metal 3. (Using the negative elements to disguise one sensation as another, rather than negating it altogether). This puts the "phantasmal killer" at a bit higher than the 4th level or 7 spell point spell, which seems about right to me.
Suggestion: Unlike with Charm and Compel, complex illusion force enhancement does not affect mindless creatures beyond what a Standard illusion force enhancement would do – but a simple or standard illusion force enhancement would have full effect, since that affects the senses and is partially real. Exception, if one combines the above spell with at least a "moderate effect" fear enhancement from Charm (the Charm spell list keyed to that type of mindless creature), then one could affect mindless creatures of that type.
