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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RangerWickett" data-source="post: 1664886" data-attributes="member: 63">How about this?  I'll have to finagle around with guidelines for how easy it is to disbelieve based on what elements you use in the illusion, but for Illusion Force:Illusion Force lets the spell do damage.  If the creature fails its save, for each MP spent on non-Force illusion lists for this spell, it takes 1d6 damage for a simple Illusion Force, 2d6 for standard Illusion Force, and either 4d6 or 1d6 per round for complex Illusion Force.  If the creature succeeds its save, it takes no damage.  If the creature is hurt, then later disbelieves, the damage remains, but it can’t be hurt anymore.  Maybe make the damage be nonlethal, though, so it fades soon after the illusion ends.An illusion of a creature can attack anyone within 5 ft. of it, acts on the mage’s turn, and can choose to divide its attacks.  So if the illusion is doing 8d6 per round, you could have it hit eight people each for 1d6, or two for 3d6 and 5d6, or one for 8d6. So, how does this sound?  An Illusion Specialist (who really is the only sort of person who ought to be using Illusion Force anyway) could cast a spell with two complex enhancements (Force and Life), and get free standard enhancements with a lot of other Illusion spell lists.  If he knew Illusion Fire, Illusion Air, Illusion Water, Illusion Earth, Illusion Force, and Illusion Life, he could create an illusion of a vicious drow warrior.Illusion Force 5/Illusion Life 5/Gen 1.  This gets him a free standard fire, air, water, and earth, so the illusion is very convincing, if somewhat bland.  The illusion acts on its own, and if a person fails his save, it can attack for 20d6 once (akin to a phantasmal killer), or once per round for 5d6.  You’d have to make a Will save (DC 15 + caster’s Cha) each time you’re hit to disbelieve.I’ll think some more about this, and try different builds.  Combining the normal spell lists is easy to adjudicate, but the weird ones are, well, weird.  And possibly broken.  Normally, you have to feel something for it to hurt, but do you need Illusion Earth to create a tactile sensation in order to have Illusion Force?  Or could you describe an illusory fireball bursting around you, not hurting, but you suddenly feel your flesh seared and dangling from your bones?  Strange.What happens if you have the Illusion Specialist feat, and you cast:Sphere of DoomIllusion Force 5/Ice 4/Lightning 1/Lava 1/Ooze 1/Nature 5/Gen 3Total MP: 20Range: Short (30 ft.)Area: 20-ft. radiusDuration: One minuteYou create an illusion of a huge wall of steel that is coated with intense flames, surrounding targets in the area of effect.  You use the Illusion Specialist feat to get free standard illusions for visual, audible, olfactory, and tactile.  The wall is semi-solid and cannot be passed through.  Everyone in the area of effect must make a Will save (DC 20 + caster’s Cha) each round to disbelieve.  Those who have not yet disbelieved take 12d6 points of nonlethal damage.  Even if they disbelieve, they cannot actually see through the illusion, as it is too convincing. Is that broken?  Compared to a 20-MP Evoke spell, that spell could do 17d6 real damage against everyone in the same area of effect, but only once.  However, against a 20th level party, most people will manage to succeed their Will save after 2 or 3 rounds, especially if someone shouts that it’s an illusion (which grants others a +4 bonus to their saves), and some will win it in the first round.  Maybe the damage needs to be toned down just a little bit, or maybe damage needs to go away as soon as the spell ends or is disbelieved, but I don’t like the flavor of that.</blockquote>

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