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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mbgrove" data-source="post: 1878652" data-attributes="member: 14422">TransformHmmm...  I think one of us is getting confused.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />  As far as I know, we're just talking about changing size, not transforming into another creature.  If that is the case, changing from Small to Medium shouldn't cost 3 MP, nor should going from Large to Huge cost 4 MP.  Why would it cost me a bunch of MP to change to a size that gives me nothing?  (Game mechanic-wise, not role-playing-wise.  I believe we're basically talking game mechanics here.)  I suppose I see the size just as just that:  a size change.  There's nothing inherently unbalancing about changing size, with just the bonus' you gave.It almost seems like we're getting size change and "Transform into Strong Creature" mixed up, from your example.  In the example, RW said that we didn't want a high-CR creature to get a discount to shapeshifting.  I don't see how that is possible with what we've got in the fixes.  If Mr. Storm Giant Shaman wanted to transform himself into a beholder, which is a CR13 critter, from the way I read it, he would have to spend 7 MP to be able to get the powers and abilities of that CR-level of a critter.  That's because of this  from the fix doc:This is only affected by the size change when they are changing to something of a different size.  Such as our friendly neighborhood Storm Giant Shaman changing into a bat.  A bat, being a CR nothing, would only cost a cantrip to something that is already diminutive, but Mr. Storm Giant, who is huge, would have to spend a bit of MP of get down to that size.I would have to disagree with this for multiple reasons.  One, this doesn't work like other tables in the system.  Take, for instance, the next table in the fixes document, which is the "Transform into Strong Creature".  If you want a CR of 7, you don't pay 2+4+6+7+10+12+14 MP, you just pay 14.  Secondly, I just don't see it needing 29 MP to go from Diminutive to Colossal when all it does is give you +4 Str and +15 Reach.  (Now, I'm assuming here that the Str and Reach aren't cumulative like the MP supposedly are.)  That just doesn't make sense.    I could see removing the MP cost from the table and stating that you get the listed Str and Reach adjustments for whatever size you have moved to, and having each "level" of size change cost 2 MP.  Even at that,it costs 14 MP to change from Diminutive to Colossal.  But, hey, that's a big change.  But, Gargantuan to Colossal isn't that big of a change in contrast to how big Gargantuan starts out.Maybe even have a table similar to the attached so that there's no questions as to what is what.  (I haven't completed it, just something to give the general idea.  Would make it clear, at least.)Now, no matter which direction we go, PS brought up something that sheds some light on something.  In the fixes doc, RW wrote:Here on the forum, RW said that he wanted to make sure that Transform can't trump Infuse and Abjure for stat-boosting, which is why size shifting only alters Strength (and less of a bonus).  However, it appears that you get other bonus' too.  What bonus' count and what don't?  Are the listed ones the only ones that change and you get all the other inherent bonus'?Well, I think I've raised enough questions for the moment.  Time to clean the house.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />Oh, and RW, I did forget the rules override saying you can't use Transform as an attack spell.  Whoops!  Sorry 'bout that.  (Though, what happens if that plank I created just happens to be over a huge pit?  Hmmm...  ::grin:: )And, please check out the Excel attachment for the size change table idea.Michael</blockquote>

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