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[Elements Revised] Spell list fixes - proposed
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<blockquote data-quote="astriemer" data-source="post: 1880500" data-attributes="member: 19771"><p><strong>Errata Comments</strong></p><p></p><p>Overall, the fixes look great. I agree with the other posters who are recommending that the errata/fixes not be imbeded in LA. Perhaps they could be included as a patch similar to the one that added the internal links and other mild revisions?</p><p></p><p>Specific Comments:</p><p>Re: Epic progressions...</p><p>Have you considered adding a line to the tables that says something like, "for each additional MP spent, do such and such." For example with the Infuse Life Temporary Hit Points table, add a line "for each additional MP spent after 20, increase the Bonus HP by +20 hit points."</p><p></p><p>Re: Infuse Nature...</p><p>Another option for increasing the power of this list would be to let it give Regeneration (Heal [x] can be used to give Fast Healing, but nothing so far gives regeneration other than possibly Transform).</p><p></p><p>Re: Illusion Force...</p><p>Should the last paragraph under Resisting Illusions start, "Similarly, if an invisible <em>illusionary</em> creature deals damage to you"?</p><p></p><p>The complex Illusion Force seems broken at high MP costs. For 12 MP I can do 20d6 damage and for 20 MP I can do 52d6 damage! Perhaps the illusion should be limited to doing no more than the caster level or total MP spent on the spell d6 damage in a single round.</p><p></p><p>Re: Cosmetic Changes - Object...</p><p>If I use the Transform Life enhancement and get an animated object, can I increase its size using just area increases, if so that seems like a cheap way to get a large animated object. Or, once you've Transform Life'ed it to a creature, does it have to use the normal Size Change enhancment?</p><p></p><p>Re: Size Change...</p><p>Regarding the table, I agree that it should be more like the other tables and not be cumulative.</p><p>Looking at the size changing spells in the core rules however, I notice that there aren't really any spells that allow you to change your size more than one category (with the exception of a WuJen spell in the new Complete Arcane). There are two basic size changing spells...the Enlarge/Reduce pair and Righteous Might. Given them as a guideline for starting perhaps Size Change could be simplified to the following:</p><p><strong>Enlarge/Reduce (2 MP). </strong> With this enhancement, you can change a creature's size, but not its exterior shape. The spell causes the creature's height to double/halve, and its weight to increase/decrease by a factor of 8. This changes the creature's size category to the next larger/smaller one. The target gains a +2/-2 size bonus/penalty to Strength, a -2/+2 size penalty/bonus to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1/+1 penalty/bonus to attack rolls and AC due to its changed size. This enhancement does not stack with any other size changing magic.</p><p><strong>Size Change (8 MP).</strong> With this enhancement, you can change a creature's size, but not its exterior shape. This spell causes the creature to increase or decrease by one size category with all resultant changes. This enhancement does not stack with any other size changing magic (if keeping to the core rules); or, This enhancement stacks only with its own size changing magic (to allow for greater than one size change category).</p><p></p><p>The MP costs are similar to those core rule equivalent spells. I don't think the 8 MP cost trumps the 8 MP that you sould spend using the Infuse spell list to get the same strength bonus as there are other penalties associated with the size change (in particular the attack/AC penalty), however, it is more flexible then the single Infuse spell list so perhaps the cost should be 10 MP per size change. This would keep things less complicated (as RW has indicated that he wants to do), while allowing for the flexibility to just change size and not form. I think that this would also allow you to remove the paragraph under Creature Form that has you comparing tables as well.</p><p></p><p>Re: Creature Form...</p><p>Would the cost for creatures above CR 10 increase at a +1 CR per 2 MP spent rate?</p><p>Clarification: If you are transforming someone into a Swarm form would you just pay for the resultant CR or would you also have to pay for the Splitting enhancement?</p><p>Clarification: If you transform into a creature that can summon other creatures do you get that ability? For that matter do you gain all the spell-like abilities or only extraordinary and supernatural?</p><p></p><p>Re: Manifest...</p><p>Why not just describe intangible as incorporeal instead of as a manifesting ghost?</p><p>Clarification: Can an intangible creature launch physical attacks or must they have the ghost touch property to do so?</p><p>Would the Gaseous Form spell effect just be another option for Manifest? Thus an intangible creature functions as either an incorporeal creature or as a gaseous creature at the caster's choice upon creating the spell.</p><p></p><p>Re: Translate...</p><p>This seems like an odd spell list. Might it be better represented as another magical skill instead?</p><p></p><p>If it is a spell list, it seems that the ESP/Telepathy powers from the Compel list would more naturally fall in this list (perhaps called Communication). The Compel lists would still have to have the ability to communicate a command telepathyically, but wouldn't allow for two way communication. Then the list would also have the [Creature] type associated with it.</p><p></p><p>Re: Divination...</p><p>Are you still considering adding the ability to use this skill to temporarily give access to a feat? (Such as when Tenser's Transformation gives the target the ability to use the Martial Weapons Proficiency feat). If so, would that be part of the errata/additional spell options?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="astriemer, post: 1880500, member: 19771"] [b]Errata Comments[/b] Overall, the fixes look great. I agree with the other posters who are recommending that the errata/fixes not be imbeded in LA. Perhaps they could be included as a patch similar to the one that added the internal links and other mild revisions? Specific Comments: Re: Epic progressions... Have you considered adding a line to the tables that says something like, "for each additional MP spent, do such and such." For example with the Infuse Life Temporary Hit Points table, add a line "for each additional MP spent after 20, increase the Bonus HP by +20 hit points." Re: Infuse Nature... Another option for increasing the power of this list would be to let it give Regeneration (Heal [x] can be used to give Fast Healing, but nothing so far gives regeneration other than possibly Transform). Re: Illusion Force... Should the last paragraph under Resisting Illusions start, "Similarly, if an invisible [I]illusionary[/I] creature deals damage to you"? The complex Illusion Force seems broken at high MP costs. For 12 MP I can do 20d6 damage and for 20 MP I can do 52d6 damage! Perhaps the illusion should be limited to doing no more than the caster level or total MP spent on the spell d6 damage in a single round. Re: Cosmetic Changes - Object... If I use the Transform Life enhancement and get an animated object, can I increase its size using just area increases, if so that seems like a cheap way to get a large animated object. Or, once you've Transform Life'ed it to a creature, does it have to use the normal Size Change enhancment? Re: Size Change... Regarding the table, I agree that it should be more like the other tables and not be cumulative. Looking at the size changing spells in the core rules however, I notice that there aren't really any spells that allow you to change your size more than one category (with the exception of a WuJen spell in the new Complete Arcane). There are two basic size changing spells...the Enlarge/Reduce pair and Righteous Might. Given them as a guideline for starting perhaps Size Change could be simplified to the following: [B]Enlarge/Reduce (2 MP). [/B] With this enhancement, you can change a creature's size, but not its exterior shape. The spell causes the creature's height to double/halve, and its weight to increase/decrease by a factor of 8. This changes the creature's size category to the next larger/smaller one. The target gains a +2/-2 size bonus/penalty to Strength, a -2/+2 size penalty/bonus to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1/+1 penalty/bonus to attack rolls and AC due to its changed size. This enhancement does not stack with any other size changing magic. [B]Size Change (8 MP).[/B] With this enhancement, you can change a creature's size, but not its exterior shape. This spell causes the creature to increase or decrease by one size category with all resultant changes. This enhancement does not stack with any other size changing magic (if keeping to the core rules); or, This enhancement stacks only with its own size changing magic (to allow for greater than one size change category). The MP costs are similar to those core rule equivalent spells. I don't think the 8 MP cost trumps the 8 MP that you sould spend using the Infuse spell list to get the same strength bonus as there are other penalties associated with the size change (in particular the attack/AC penalty), however, it is more flexible then the single Infuse spell list so perhaps the cost should be 10 MP per size change. This would keep things less complicated (as RW has indicated that he wants to do), while allowing for the flexibility to just change size and not form. I think that this would also allow you to remove the paragraph under Creature Form that has you comparing tables as well. Re: Creature Form... Would the cost for creatures above CR 10 increase at a +1 CR per 2 MP spent rate? Clarification: If you are transforming someone into a Swarm form would you just pay for the resultant CR or would you also have to pay for the Splitting enhancement? Clarification: If you transform into a creature that can summon other creatures do you get that ability? For that matter do you gain all the spell-like abilities or only extraordinary and supernatural? Re: Manifest... Why not just describe intangible as incorporeal instead of as a manifesting ghost? Clarification: Can an intangible creature launch physical attacks or must they have the ghost touch property to do so? Would the Gaseous Form spell effect just be another option for Manifest? Thus an intangible creature functions as either an incorporeal creature or as a gaseous creature at the caster's choice upon creating the spell. Re: Translate... This seems like an odd spell list. Might it be better represented as another magical skill instead? If it is a spell list, it seems that the ESP/Telepathy powers from the Compel list would more naturally fall in this list (perhaps called Communication). The Compel lists would still have to have the ability to communicate a command telepathyically, but wouldn't allow for two way communication. Then the list would also have the [Creature] type associated with it. Re: Divination... Are you still considering adding the ability to use this skill to temporarily give access to a feat? (Such as when Tenser's Transformation gives the target the ability to use the Martial Weapons Proficiency feat). If so, would that be part of the errata/additional spell options? [/QUOTE]
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