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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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<blockquote data-quote="nnms" data-source="post: 5925693" data-attributes="member: 83293"><p>I went and read the link RogueAgent provided, and now that I understand the nuances of the position expounded there, I can see why people get so up and arms over it.</p><p></p><p>I do see his point though. For the first decade and a half of RPG history, games were about the GM describing a situation, players making descriptions about what their characters do and the GM using the system to determine the results when they are in question and then describing the new situation that arises.</p><p></p><p>It creates an endless circuit of description, dialogue, etc., where the system comes up to provide "what happens?" answers when needed.</p><p></p><p>If a player ends up making decisions not based on the described situation, but based on a robust mechanical framework, they might be doing something different than the games that started the hobby.</p><p></p><p>I happen to like the broad-to-the-point-of-uselessness definition of roleplaying game. So I don't find the "that's not an rpg!" statement to be helpful.</p><p></p><p>But I do see his point. There are a lot of modern game designs that have departed from the circuit of described changing situations model that dominated the hobby's early years. And if you make that the definition of a game centred around playing a role, it would be easy to conclude that games that don't do that don't fit the definition.</p><p></p><p>I don't like the middle ground games unless they do a really good job of getting it right. I like my out there story games like In A Wicked Age, Polaris, etc., and I like my trad games. For middle ground games, I like Strands of Fate, HeroQuest, and the like. But one could easily argue that those are not middle ground games at all, but belong in the story games category.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: So how does that connect with Fighter and Rogue dailies?</p><p></p><p>He's right, in a way.</p><p></p><p>They're based off of an artificial resource mechanic with no consistent explanation in the fiction other than you have to describe it after the fact and not describe the situation before the fact.</p><p></p><p>But when you are looking for the "describe the situation and have the players describe their response" approach, it falls apart because you can't describe it in advance. As the use of the power necessitates the situation that allows for its setup, you can't use the currently described situation to explain how it happens. You essentially use the power and retcon the situation to fit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nnms, post: 5925693, member: 83293"] I went and read the link RogueAgent provided, and now that I understand the nuances of the position expounded there, I can see why people get so up and arms over it. I do see his point though. For the first decade and a half of RPG history, games were about the GM describing a situation, players making descriptions about what their characters do and the GM using the system to determine the results when they are in question and then describing the new situation that arises. It creates an endless circuit of description, dialogue, etc., where the system comes up to provide "what happens?" answers when needed. If a player ends up making decisions not based on the described situation, but based on a robust mechanical framework, they might be doing something different than the games that started the hobby. I happen to like the broad-to-the-point-of-uselessness definition of roleplaying game. So I don't find the "that's not an rpg!" statement to be helpful. But I do see his point. There are a lot of modern game designs that have departed from the circuit of described changing situations model that dominated the hobby's early years. And if you make that the definition of a game centred around playing a role, it would be easy to conclude that games that don't do that don't fit the definition. I don't like the middle ground games unless they do a really good job of getting it right. I like my out there story games like In A Wicked Age, Polaris, etc., and I like my trad games. For middle ground games, I like Strands of Fate, HeroQuest, and the like. But one could easily argue that those are not middle ground games at all, but belong in the story games category. EDIT: So how does that connect with Fighter and Rogue dailies? He's right, in a way. They're based off of an artificial resource mechanic with no consistent explanation in the fiction other than you have to describe it after the fact and not describe the situation before the fact. But when you are looking for the "describe the situation and have the players describe their response" approach, it falls apart because you can't describe it in advance. As the use of the power necessitates the situation that allows for its setup, you can't use the currently described situation to explain how it happens. You essentially use the power and retcon the situation to fit. [/QUOTE]
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Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
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