Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Rogue Agent" data-source="post: 5925945" data-attributes="member: 6673496"><p>Because a magic-user's spells aren't dissociated: The character knows that he prepared two <em>fireball</em> spells and can, therefore, only cast two <em>fireball</em> spells. The decision to use those <em>fireball</em> spells by the player is directly associated with the wizard's decision to cast them in the game world.</p><p></p><p>You can try to dismiss that as just saying "it's magic", but it is the key distinction being discussed.</p><p></p><p>You can also try to belittle and dismiss those who care about having associated mechanics because they aren't important to you, but that tells us a lot about you and not much about the issue at hand.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Since the decision you're making has absolutely nothing to do with playing a role, I'm afraid you're running up against the definitions of the English language here.</p><p></p><p>If you want to try to define "roleplaying" to mean something other than "playing a role", be my guest. But I'm probably not going to be convinced.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that is precisely what makes them dissociated mechanics: The player is making a decision which is not associated with the decisions being made by the character.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I find it useful specifically because it cuts through the confusion that happens when you try to lump every type of storytelling game together and pretend that they're all doing the same thing.</p><p></p><p>There are lots of people who are perfectly happy mixing roleplaying mechanics, storytelling mechanics, and a bunch of other stuff together in a big, happy pot. More power to them.</p><p></p><p>But there is also clearly a very large body of people who play roleplaying games in order to play their role: To make decisions as if they were their character. The proof of that is that these threads and these arguments aren't going away.</p><p></p><p>Saying "we're doing one thing and you're doing another" isn't an attempt to belittle either party. It's an attempt to cut through the <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> and get people to recognize what they're doing, why they're doing it, and why they enjoy it.</p><p></p><p>You want to get offended if I say "when you make a decision about something your character doesn't control, you aren't playing your role when you make that decision"? Take a second and really think about that. Why are you getting offended? You clearly enjoy making decisions that your character isn't making. Why do you feel some sort of guilt or shame over that?</p><p></p><p>You should own it and embrace it and figure out how to make those decisions better and more interesting. Is it that you like having input on the world? Input on the pace of the story? An ability to rewrite the game world to favor your avatar?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>100% agreed. That is exactly what I'm saying.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rogue Agent, post: 5925945, member: 6673496"] Because a magic-user's spells aren't dissociated: The character knows that he prepared two [i]fireball[/i] spells and can, therefore, only cast two [i]fireball[/i] spells. The decision to use those [i]fireball[/i] spells by the player is directly associated with the wizard's decision to cast them in the game world. You can try to dismiss that as just saying "it's magic", but it is the key distinction being discussed. You can also try to belittle and dismiss those who care about having associated mechanics because they aren't important to you, but that tells us a lot about you and not much about the issue at hand. Since the decision you're making has absolutely nothing to do with playing a role, I'm afraid you're running up against the definitions of the English language here. If you want to try to define "roleplaying" to mean something other than "playing a role", be my guest. But I'm probably not going to be convinced. And that is precisely what makes them dissociated mechanics: The player is making a decision which is not associated with the decisions being made by the character. I find it useful specifically because it cuts through the confusion that happens when you try to lump every type of storytelling game together and pretend that they're all doing the same thing. There are lots of people who are perfectly happy mixing roleplaying mechanics, storytelling mechanics, and a bunch of other stuff together in a big, happy pot. More power to them. But there is also clearly a very large body of people who play roleplaying games in order to play their role: To make decisions as if they were their character. The proof of that is that these threads and these arguments aren't going away. Saying "we're doing one thing and you're doing another" isn't an attempt to belittle either party. It's an attempt to cut through the :):):):):):):):) and get people to recognize what they're doing, why they're doing it, and why they enjoy it. You want to get offended if I say "when you make a decision about something your character doesn't control, you aren't playing your role when you make that decision"? Take a second and really think about that. Why are you getting offended? You clearly enjoy making decisions that your character isn't making. Why do you feel some sort of guilt or shame over that? You should own it and embrace it and figure out how to make those decisions better and more interesting. Is it that you like having input on the world? Input on the pace of the story? An ability to rewrite the game world to favor your avatar? 100% agreed. That is exactly what I'm saying. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Elephant in the room: rogue and fighter dailies.
Top