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<blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 334999" data-attributes="member: 1757">1) I think we can all agree that the dragon shouldn't have made it into the adventure. Better to have included a &quot;plain old&quot; great red wyrm; these are a HECK of a challenge to even epic-level characters and perfectly deadly in their own right. Instead, the designers committed one of the great sins of adventure design: Include a monster far too powerful for the characters to defeat, and then include the nifty device that'll kill the monster anyway, thereby cheapening the fact that it was too powerful to kill in the first place. Hmph.2) If one DOES use the dragon, then the cold orb artifact is supposed to inflict (100d10)x2 damage, because the dragon is a [fire] subtype creature. This is worth remembering. Still and so, the average damage from this is going to be a mere 1100 hp damage, leaving the dragon with over 300 hp. OTOH, perhaps your characters are supposed to have the foresight to use a wish or similar spell to force the orb to inflict maximum damage; that's probably asking a bit much, though.3) Cloudgatherer: Your DM wasn't playing the ranger correctly. He's supposed to be scared to death of the infernal, but willing to fight it if your PCs offer their help in doing so. With his help and that of his sister, the infernal should be a VERY difficult, but still possible, encounter.In any case, there's no question that this module has design flaws, although I'll really say that the dragon is the single major flaw. Substitute him with a GW red, and I think you'll be fine.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ruleslawyer, post: 334999, member: 1757"] 1) I think we can all agree that the dragon shouldn't have made it into the adventure. Better to have included a "plain old" great red wyrm; these are a HECK of a challenge to even epic-level characters and perfectly deadly in their own right. Instead, the designers committed one of the great sins of adventure design: Include a monster far too powerful for the characters to defeat, and then include the nifty device that'll kill the monster anyway, thereby cheapening the fact that it was too powerful to kill in the first place. Hmph. 2) If one DOES use the dragon, then the cold orb artifact is supposed to inflict (100d10)x2 damage, because the dragon is a [fire] subtype creature. This is worth remembering. Still and so, the average damage from this is going to be a mere 1100 hp damage, leaving the dragon with over 300 hp. OTOH, perhaps your characters are supposed to have the foresight to use a [i]wish[/i] or similar spell to force the orb to inflict maximum damage; that's probably asking a bit much, though. 3) Cloudgatherer: Your DM wasn't playing the ranger correctly. He's supposed to be scared to death of the infernal, but willing to fight it if your PCs offer their help in doing so. With his help and that of his sister, the infernal should be a VERY difficult, but still possible, encounter. In any case, there's no question that this module has design flaws, although I'll really say that the dragon is the single major flaw. Substitute him with a GW red, and I think you'll be fine. [/QUOTE]

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