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<blockquote data-quote="Old Gumphrey" data-source="post: 3560031" data-attributes="member: 12872">Actually there is a penalty: it's -ACP to all your attack rolls AND str- and dex- based checks and skills. So say goodbye to your scorching rays because your BAB already sucks--good luck hitting a 13 touch AC at level 3 with a -8 to hit while firing into melee. And also instead of this whole scenario, what stops core mages from already having +8 AC all the time? Not much. Mage Armor + Shield = free full plate.So you're double dipping your penalties on climb and stealth and jump and what not, which are already awful. Good luck jumping that 5 foot chasm with a -19 jump check (-1 str, -6 ACP, -6 nonproficiency penalty, -6 for having a speed of 20'), since you already used fly to get to the top of the mountain, then spider climb to get up the giant's fortress wall.Arcane Spell Failure is garbage. There is NOTHING unbalancing about arcane casters getting a +8 armor bonus. I mean they already can get bracers of armor. Who cares? It's an old-time sacred cow mechanic that's got nothing to do with game balance. Clerics roll out in full plate and do damn near everything a wizard can do plus more, and nobody says a word about that.Probably the very best house rule would be eliminating ASF, but requiring proficiency to wear armor. So fighter/mages can get ripped up AC and single class casters can get it with a lot of trouble.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Old Gumphrey, post: 3560031, member: 12872"] Actually there is a penalty: it's -ACP to all your attack rolls AND str- and dex- based checks and skills. So say goodbye to your scorching rays because your BAB already sucks--good luck hitting a 13 touch AC at level 3 with a -8 to hit while firing into melee. And also instead of this whole scenario, what stops core mages from already having +8 AC all the time? Not much. Mage Armor + Shield = free full plate. So you're double dipping your penalties on climb and stealth and jump and what not, which are already awful. Good luck jumping that 5 foot chasm with a -19 jump check (-1 str, -6 ACP, -6 nonproficiency penalty, -6 for having a speed of 20'), since you already used fly to get to the top of the mountain, then spider climb to get up the giant's fortress wall. Arcane Spell Failure is garbage. There is NOTHING unbalancing about arcane casters getting a +8 armor bonus. I mean they already can get bracers of armor. Who cares? It's an old-time sacred cow mechanic that's got nothing to do with game balance. Clerics roll out in full plate and do damn near everything a wizard can do plus more, and nobody says a word about that. Probably the very best house rule would be eliminating ASF, but requiring proficiency to wear armor. So fighter/mages can get ripped up AC and single class casters can get it with a lot of trouble. [/QUOTE]

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