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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgbrowning" data-source="post: 632666" data-attributes="member: 5724">Well, i honestly didn't expect anyone to ask why i felt that way. this is kinda like opening up a big can of "dear lord, i have to tell someone what i think and that's just going to create a big mess (flame) on a board where i'd prefer not to".  Hrm.Well lemme preface by saything that this is obviously just my opinion, so lets keep the flaming down... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />It my biggest complaint with 3E because other things are my biggest complaint as well... was just being a bit hyperbolic.  Here's my run down of thought to how i got to my above statement.  1. 3E promotes faster leveling (than old dnd) and wants characters over 10th level to be not unsusal. PC are expected to reach level 20 in around 18 months.2. Creating a coherant fantasy world where there are appropriate challanges for 20th levelers and 1st levelers is difficult. Big monsters (15-20th level)eat a lot/ would have giant smaug like areas of control/ be famous and legendary.  Mid level encounters (6-12th) would have to be fairly common given the distribution of levels in the DMG demographics section.3. Realism is assumed to be stopped because the players are 1st level. ie....  players will only face fights that are appropriate to their level although there must be hundreds and hundreds of challanges for 3-9th level parties.ie. when a group of 1st level adventurers enter a "haunted graveyard" you know they aint gonna be meeting a group of 3 shadows, more the less a lich.  Although a group of 3 shadows is not in any form or fashion unreasonable in a world where such creatures exist given the "haunted graveyard" setting.4. The players know this. Regardless of wether or not they role-play their reasons, the players know that when they create 1st level characters, I as DM, won't send them out to get slaughtered in their first fight.  Although by all rights of logic and world coherancy, they should probably get slaughtered5. Because of this the players are more willing to fight than what i think a person in a real fantasy world with all those parameters would be willing to fight. When your 1-3rd level, you'd avoid fighting if at all possible, because more than likely you would simply die.--------------All of the above are not unique to 3E. But i think 3E exacerbated the situation when it decided to speed up the leveling process.Most of my complaints stem from the problem of creating a coherant world given the variables presented in the system. Ie. if my players go from 1-20th in 18 months why would there not be other groups of people doing the same thing?Answer: there isn't one outside of the "players are heros" bit. My players are definitely not the heroic types.. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> And there would surely be many other heros besides my 6 in a big world.Ok well, i think i've gone on far enough to make my point.  Again these are just my opinions (most of them not necessarily against 3e).Enjoyed hearing all of your responses so far.. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />joe b.</blockquote>

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