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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 3650088" data-attributes="member: 1656">There was debate in 3E about the Knockdown feat; did the attempt to trip the opponent granted by the feat mean &quot;Make an opposed Str vs Str/Dex check&quot;, or did it mean &quot;Make a melee touch attack, provoking an AoO; make an opposed Str vs Str/Dex check; if you fail, your opponent gets to trip you in return&quot;?&nbsp; In other words, did it refer to the mechanics of resolving whether or not someone who is tripped falls prone, or did it mean you should follow all the normal steps involved in tripping someone as if you had taken the Trip action?I think this is a similar issue - is the idea that by being an Elusive Target, you cause your opponent to lose his balance and fall, or is it that you take advantage of an opening to hook his leg from under him?If the first, your weapon should be irrelevant - indeed, no touch attack should be necessary.If the second, all the normal rules for a Trip - including provoking an AoO for the unarmed touch attack, if you don't have a trip weapon - should apply, with the exception of the countertrip as noted in the feat text.This is similar to the Dervish with Power Attack.&nbsp; Once he gains the ability that states scimitars are treated as light weapons for all purposes, he's no longer eligible to Power Attack with them - a light weapon cannot gain a damage bonus from Power Attack.If a DM would rule that a Dervish may use Power Attack with his scimitar, he should also rule that Improved Uncanny Dodge doesn't preclude Diverting Defence.&nbsp; If he rules the Dervish may not, then IUD should prevent Diverting Defence being useful, since it only applied when he is flanked, and IUD states he cannot be flanked.-Hyp.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 3650088, member: 1656"] There was debate in 3E about the Knockdown feat; did the attempt to trip the opponent granted by the feat mean "Make an opposed Str vs Str/Dex check", or did it mean "Make a melee touch attack, provoking an AoO; make an opposed Str vs Str/Dex check; if you fail, your opponent gets to trip you in return"? In other words, did it refer to the mechanics of resolving whether or not someone who is tripped falls prone, or did it mean you should follow all the normal steps involved in tripping someone as if you had taken the Trip action? I think this is a similar issue - is the idea that by being an Elusive Target, you cause your opponent to lose his balance and fall, or is it that you take advantage of an opening to hook his leg from under him? If the first, your weapon should be irrelevant - indeed, no touch attack should be necessary. If the second, all the normal rules for a Trip - including provoking an AoO for the unarmed touch attack, if you don't have a trip weapon - should apply, with the exception of the countertrip as noted in the feat text. This is similar to the Dervish with Power Attack. Once he gains the ability that states scimitars are treated as light weapons for all purposes, he's no longer eligible to Power Attack with them - a light weapon cannot gain a damage bonus from Power Attack. If a DM would rule that a Dervish may use Power Attack with his scimitar, he should also rule that Improved Uncanny Dodge doesn't preclude Diverting Defence. If he rules the Dervish may not, then IUD should prevent Diverting Defence being useful, since it only applied when he is flanked, and IUD states he cannot be flanked. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]

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