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<blockquote data-quote="Anon Adderlan" data-source="post: 4660745" data-attributes="member: 53053"><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow">If this was the case, then WotC was well within their rights to do what they did. Sadly, the situation appears to have already reached settlement, and an NDA blankets the landscape, so any chance of getting anything beyond rumors at this point is highly unlikely. I suspect that Ema is rather limited in what he can confirm or deny at this point.</span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow">That said, and since I already wrote most of this before I was aware of certain details, here's a quick legal lesson...</span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"> If WotC had acted in bad faith by issuing a takedown notice without proper consideration of fair use (which is looking less and less likely), Ema could have sued for <a href="http://newsgrist.typepad.com/underbelly/2008/08/youtube-decisio.html" target="_blank"><em>damages</em></a> under the DMCA. And while Ema had stated previously that the site was deleted by the ISP at the request of WotC, it's possible that the settlement agreement limits Ema to saying that WotC <em>requested</em> him to delete all the data, even if it was already gone by then.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow">A character sheet is a <em>form</em>, and <a href="http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ32.html" target="_blank">"Blank forms and similar works designed to record rather than to convey information cannot be protected by copyright"</a>. Sure, you can't use the logos, and some designs may be considered product identity, but it's really not difficult to layout a character sheet and avoid all that.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow">While the source to a program can be protected by copyright, the task a program performs can only be protected by patents. I highly doubt Ema was unlawfully using WotC's source code, and even if 4e is protected by patents (is it?), the same would not necessarily be the case for a character generator.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow">You cannot use trademarks to protect the terms used to <em>describe</em> a process or game. I'm really not sure what WotC claims as product identity in 4e, and it's in their best interests to be as unclear about this as possible. However, if they claimed something like 'Armor Class', its use would not be protected by either trademark or copyright law.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow">There is nothing illegal about charging money for storage. If I rent an apartment, I can keep my character sheets there. What makes the internet any different? I myself keep many character sheets on Google Docs. Is Google infringing WotC's copyrights, trademarks, or patents?</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"></p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow">You do not need a specific license from WotC, such as the GSL, to engage in any of the above activities regarding 4e. Normal IP law works just fine. Personally, I'm rather sick of all the EULAs and crap that try to redefine IP law in the public eye.</p></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"></p><p></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow">If you really feel like pursuing it, you <em>might</em> have a valid case against WotC, but how much is it really worth it to you? And just as a form cannot be protected by copyright, it's possible the same may apply to a <em>filled out</em> form. Not sure at this point.</span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow">One thing I find fascinating is that RPGs are the ONLY copyright protected work that explicitly requires you to create derivative works to use in the first place. That's interesting untested legal territory right there.</span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow">WotC want's to move everyone away from 3.5, so if they obliterated the site due to 4e issues, they might as well get Ema to agree to ditch the 3.5 stuff too.</span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark" target="_blank">Not true.</a></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: Yellow"><em>The owner of a registered trademark may commence legal proceedings for trademark infringement to prevent unauthorized use of that trademark. However, registration is not required.</em></p><p></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow">You should see the artist commissions at comic book conventions.</span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow"></span></p><p><span style="color: Yellow">Hell, I saw two different illustrations based on the same Wolverine promotional photo at NYCC, and that's not even an original drawing of the character in question. Then again, it <em>was</em> a promo image.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Anon Adderlan, post: 4660745, member: 53053"] [COLOR=Yellow] If this was the case, then WotC was well within their rights to do what they did. Sadly, the situation appears to have already reached settlement, and an NDA blankets the landscape, so any chance of getting anything beyond rumors at this point is highly unlikely. I suspect that Ema is rather limited in what he can confirm or deny at this point. That said, and since I already wrote most of this before I was aware of certain details, here's a quick legal lesson... [INDENT] If WotC had acted in bad faith by issuing a takedown notice without proper consideration of fair use (which is looking less and less likely), Ema could have sued for [URL="http://newsgrist.typepad.com/underbelly/2008/08/youtube-decisio.html"][I]damages[/I][/URL] under the DMCA. And while Ema had stated previously that the site was deleted by the ISP at the request of WotC, it's possible that the settlement agreement limits Ema to saying that WotC [I]requested[/I] him to delete all the data, even if it was already gone by then. A character sheet is a [I]form[/I], and [URL="http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ32.html"]"Blank forms and similar works designed to record rather than to convey information cannot be protected by copyright"[/URL]. Sure, you can't use the logos, and some designs may be considered product identity, but it's really not difficult to layout a character sheet and avoid all that. While the source to a program can be protected by copyright, the task a program performs can only be protected by patents. I highly doubt Ema was unlawfully using WotC's source code, and even if 4e is protected by patents (is it?), the same would not necessarily be the case for a character generator. You cannot use trademarks to protect the terms used to [I]describe[/I] a process or game. I'm really not sure what WotC claims as product identity in 4e, and it's in their best interests to be as unclear about this as possible. However, if they claimed something like 'Armor Class', its use would not be protected by either trademark or copyright law. There is nothing illegal about charging money for storage. If I rent an apartment, I can keep my character sheets there. What makes the internet any different? I myself keep many character sheets on Google Docs. Is Google infringing WotC's copyrights, trademarks, or patents? You do not need a specific license from WotC, such as the GSL, to engage in any of the above activities regarding 4e. Normal IP law works just fine. Personally, I'm rather sick of all the EULAs and crap that try to redefine IP law in the public eye. [/INDENT] If you really feel like pursuing it, you [I]might[/I] have a valid case against WotC, but how much is it really worth it to you? And just as a form cannot be protected by copyright, it's possible the same may apply to a [I]filled out[/I] form. Not sure at this point. One thing I find fascinating is that RPGs are the ONLY copyright protected work that explicitly requires you to create derivative works to use in the first place. That's interesting untested legal territory right there. WotC want's to move everyone away from 3.5, so if they obliterated the site due to 4e issues, they might as well get Ema to agree to ditch the 3.5 stuff too. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark"]Not true.[/URL] [INDENT][I]The owner of a registered trademark may commence legal proceedings for trademark infringement to prevent unauthorized use of that trademark. However, registration is not required.[/I][/INDENT] You should see the artist commissions at comic book conventions. Hell, I saw two different illustrations based on the same Wolverine promotional photo at NYCC, and that's not even an original drawing of the character in question. Then again, it [I]was[/I] a promo image.[/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
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