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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7815878" data-attributes="member: 12731">I think we're focusing too much on exactly what kinds of Orcs can touch the heroes and who can't.Paizo's chosen design has much more far-reaching consequences than this. Remember NPC attitude and influence rules (every D&amp;D usually has at least skeleton rules for this)?Well, a level 5 Bard can automatically shift the attitude of a level 1 creature two steps every time, no chance of failure.At level 5 you can sport a +13 bonus and have the ability to &quot;take 10&quot; for an automatic result of 23. Any creature with a +3 Will save bonus will have a DC of 13 to be influenced. Hence, a result of 23 is a critical success every time. This means that already at level 5 you can automatically shift the opinions of average people from hostile to neutral not using magic.Yes, I am aware player characters are immune from this rule.If you come from 5E this is clearly in the realm of supernatural influence. &quot;Let's not argue who killed whom...&quot; In Pathfinder 2, it is just the default: at level 5, first-level people doesn't matter any more.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7815878, member: 12731"] I think we're focusing too much on exactly what kinds of Orcs can touch the heroes and who can't. Paizo's chosen design has much more far-reaching consequences than this. Remember NPC attitude and influence rules (every D&D usually has at least skeleton rules for this)? Well, a level 5 Bard can automatically shift the attitude of a level 1 creature two steps every time, no chance of failure. At level 5 you can sport a +13 bonus and have the ability to "take 10" for an automatic result of 23. Any creature with a +3 Will save bonus will have a DC of 13 to be influenced. Hence, a result of 23 is a critical success every time. This means that already at level 5 you can automatically shift the opinions of average people from hostile to neutral not using magic. [SIZE=1]Yes, I am aware player characters are immune from this rule.[/SIZE] If you come from 5E this is clearly in the realm of supernatural influence. "Let's not argue who killed whom..." In Pathfinder 2, it is just the default: at level 5, first-level people doesn't matter any more. [/QUOTE]

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