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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jasperak" data-source="post: 4641882" data-attributes="member: 2487">OK i see. I didn't understand because that's how I play anyway. As DM I try to challenge the players and their characters and they try to not die (the characters of course.) Now we never did play into higher levels (14+) in 3e but did in earlier editions past. I don't think we ever thought either I or other DMs were unfair. Now to be fair recently there was one younger player that started whining when I used a creature that could attack his one weakness. That cry baby was gone within 4 sessions. Players crying foul because they min/max and then get bit do not belong in my game.I guess I am part of the Old Guard with respects to the role of the DM. In my opinion, the DM challenges the players and characters. If they survive there is a story to tell. If the DM purposefully directs the game flow by pulling punches, then there is NO story worth telling. IMHO.The poster above does make a great point about an emergent difference between pre-4e and 4e games. Earlier games did rely on preparation more than adapting, especially with spellcasters. That maybe one of the reasons I dislike 4e. I am much more effective in planning stages than execution stages.</blockquote>