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<blockquote data-quote="Shallown" data-source="post: 1682580" data-attributes="member: 1368"><p>Quote:</p><p>Originally Posted by Shallown</p><p>Part of technology is that it eventually becomes accepted by the common man. I think keeping magic and divine power as something seperate and frightening to the common person is part of accepting the D&D part of the world but still keeping it Fantasy/medeival. </p><p></p><p>I think there is a middle ground of planning for mid to high level power in a campaign that let's the players use those abilities and still keep it medieval/fantasy. </p><p></p><p>MAC</p><p>Perhaps it's a failure of my imagination, but I just can't imagine a world where dragons and demons walk the earth and anyone with a slightly above-average personality, IQ or insight (or any average person now Middle Aged) can master basic spells of arcane or divine nature retaining this fear of the 'unknown.' Quite the contrary, it seems it would be quite common.</p><p></p><p>My answer is that usually as a player and a GM if the characters are not scared of the dragons and demons walking the world then someone has failed as a GM and those characters can actually do something about it. So even if Farmer Bob is a 20th level expert/commoner farmer if he sees a dragon he'll probably drop a load in his pants since chances are he can't do anything to affect that creature. To me, its not about do the commoners accept these things to be real but the fact they are genuilly fearful (and therefore superstitious)of them. As I think they would be of high magic characters. </p><p></p><p></p><p>MAC</p><p>There are game systems that make magic rare and weird, but the D&D rules are setup such that 83.5% of the ECL +0 race-populations qualify for the prerequisites of some kind of spellcasting. (That's a real number - only 17.5% of the population would have a 9 or less in all three spellcasting stats.) You could say that Wizardly training is hard to come by, but all Adepts, Clerics and Druids need is faith, and all Sorcerers need is talent. Those are free and, according to the rules, abundant.</p><p></p><p>According to the rules, a human born with a spellcasting stat of 10 will get +3 to that stat through aging and maturity, and up to 5 points through level advancement. This pretty much guarantees that anyone of a certain age & experience has the stats required to cast spells of the appropriate levels. Spells up to 3rd should be quite common - by a straight interpretation of the rules.</p><p></p><p>This also explains how wimpy, no stat bonus, no inherant spellcasting humans even survive as a species in a world populated by magical monsters.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, it's not 'fantasy' or 'Arthurian' or 'Medieval', but as others have mentioned, D&D isn't designed to do those things. It's a category unto itself, which is exactly what I read from Quasqueton's first post. I was just trying to explore that.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I see your point clearly. There isn't a rules reason to stop those circumstances. But the rules are a tool to me and not a perfect one. This is one of those things that it might be interesting to run a game where what you say is the absolute truth and everytone is a potential character. I beleive most games don't run this way. I may be wrong <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />. I could offer argue meant about why its not true but that opinion would not be supported by the rules. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Quote:</p><p>Originally Posted by Shallown</p><p>To put it in modern terms I don't worry about the exchange rate of french to american money is or what the weather is in Paris today cause ain't much way in heck I am going anytime soon but someone who is a CEO of a corperation may becuase he may need to fly their today for a business meeting. Two different worlds that both exist without one making the other unbeleivable. </p><p></p><p>MAC</p><p>You may not care about the weather in France, but if you appreciate wine or cheese (to pick two stereotyped examples) you'll care next summer what France's weather was today. Things happening far away will affect the prices in your local grocer. In a world with Teleport Circle Emporor Zirg's Ogre legions (made up referance to avoid FR referances) could have spread out to the entire world. Some peasants won't care about that fact - but some will.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But I would only care becuase those things may come from france to me. A modern mode of thinking. Farmer bob once agian wouldn't care. he may care about what happens in the next village where he gets wheat but does he care what happens a kingdom away. Not likely, in my mind. True Villagers may care about Emperor Zirg's army if they are in the way but I think the pointis they wouldn't understand or be able to stop it. That's what the big boys are for. I think that is the pointof being the hero is to be able to do what others cannot. Zirg's army is an example of when one world intersects with the other. Where high magic crashes in on the low magic world. I think they both can exist without negating the other. I think this is where D&Dism's have to find their comfort level. Allowing the unbalanced (in the big picture of realism) Spells to work and coexist without completely rewriting their impact on the fantasy world at large. </p><p></p><p>Thanks for the insight Mac. I enjoy the differing points of veiw. Trust me that in the fantasy game I created to play for fun none of these D&Disms exist becuase of how much reality I have to stretch to fit them in.</p><p></p><p>Later</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shallown, post: 1682580, member: 1368"] Quote: Originally Posted by Shallown Part of technology is that it eventually becomes accepted by the common man. I think keeping magic and divine power as something seperate and frightening to the common person is part of accepting the D&D part of the world but still keeping it Fantasy/medeival. I think there is a middle ground of planning for mid to high level power in a campaign that let's the players use those abilities and still keep it medieval/fantasy. MAC Perhaps it's a failure of my imagination, but I just can't imagine a world where dragons and demons walk the earth and anyone with a slightly above-average personality, IQ or insight (or any average person now Middle Aged) can master basic spells of arcane or divine nature retaining this fear of the 'unknown.' Quite the contrary, it seems it would be quite common. My answer is that usually as a player and a GM if the characters are not scared of the dragons and demons walking the world then someone has failed as a GM and those characters can actually do something about it. So even if Farmer Bob is a 20th level expert/commoner farmer if he sees a dragon he'll probably drop a load in his pants since chances are he can't do anything to affect that creature. To me, its not about do the commoners accept these things to be real but the fact they are genuilly fearful (and therefore superstitious)of them. As I think they would be of high magic characters. MAC There are game systems that make magic rare and weird, but the D&D rules are setup such that 83.5% of the ECL +0 race-populations qualify for the prerequisites of some kind of spellcasting. (That's a real number - only 17.5% of the population would have a 9 or less in all three spellcasting stats.) You could say that Wizardly training is hard to come by, but all Adepts, Clerics and Druids need is faith, and all Sorcerers need is talent. Those are free and, according to the rules, abundant. According to the rules, a human born with a spellcasting stat of 10 will get +3 to that stat through aging and maturity, and up to 5 points through level advancement. This pretty much guarantees that anyone of a certain age & experience has the stats required to cast spells of the appropriate levels. Spells up to 3rd should be quite common - by a straight interpretation of the rules. This also explains how wimpy, no stat bonus, no inherant spellcasting humans even survive as a species in a world populated by magical monsters. Yeah, it's not 'fantasy' or 'Arthurian' or 'Medieval', but as others have mentioned, D&D isn't designed to do those things. It's a category unto itself, which is exactly what I read from Quasqueton's first post. I was just trying to explore that. I see your point clearly. There isn't a rules reason to stop those circumstances. But the rules are a tool to me and not a perfect one. This is one of those things that it might be interesting to run a game where what you say is the absolute truth and everytone is a potential character. I beleive most games don't run this way. I may be wrong ;). I could offer argue meant about why its not true but that opinion would not be supported by the rules. :) Quote: Originally Posted by Shallown To put it in modern terms I don't worry about the exchange rate of french to american money is or what the weather is in Paris today cause ain't much way in heck I am going anytime soon but someone who is a CEO of a corperation may becuase he may need to fly their today for a business meeting. Two different worlds that both exist without one making the other unbeleivable. MAC You may not care about the weather in France, but if you appreciate wine or cheese (to pick two stereotyped examples) you'll care next summer what France's weather was today. Things happening far away will affect the prices in your local grocer. In a world with Teleport Circle Emporor Zirg's Ogre legions (made up referance to avoid FR referances) could have spread out to the entire world. Some peasants won't care about that fact - but some will. But I would only care becuase those things may come from france to me. A modern mode of thinking. Farmer bob once agian wouldn't care. he may care about what happens in the next village where he gets wheat but does he care what happens a kingdom away. Not likely, in my mind. True Villagers may care about Emperor Zirg's army if they are in the way but I think the pointis they wouldn't understand or be able to stop it. That's what the big boys are for. I think that is the pointof being the hero is to be able to do what others cannot. Zirg's army is an example of when one world intersects with the other. Where high magic crashes in on the low magic world. I think they both can exist without negating the other. I think this is where D&Dism's have to find their comfort level. Allowing the unbalanced (in the big picture of realism) Spells to work and coexist without completely rewriting their impact on the fantasy world at large. Thanks for the insight Mac. I enjoy the differing points of veiw. Trust me that in the fantasy game I created to play for fun none of these D&Disms exist becuase of how much reality I have to stretch to fit them in. Later [/QUOTE]
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