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Empower Spell + Summon Monster equals...
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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6982843" data-attributes="member: 6669384"><p>What happens when you apply the Empower Spell feat to a Summon Monster x spell?</p><p></p><p>At first glance, it looks like it wouldn't do much, if anything. Yeah, there a dice roll if you use Summon Monster X to call for a number of monsters from the Summon Monster X-1 table, but that's not usually your A game. After 1st level Summoned monsters are about half the CR of the caster, which often makes them little more than speed bumps in an actual battle.</p><p></p><p>What I'm wondering is whether it applies to the implied random numbers inherent in the monster itself? As in, ability scores and hit dice.</p><p></p><p>Monster ability scores, straight out of the book, are based on a standard array to which racial modifiers are applied. That is, 10, 11, 10, 11, 10, 11. These are the average of a 3 D6 being rolled. (The average is 10.5, hence the split).</p><p></p><p>In theory though a DM running a monster from the book could use a different base, such as the Elite array, or even (gasp) roll the actual dice.</p><p></p><p>If we read that "standard array" as the result of an average dice roll then Empower spell would add 5 to every ability score.</p><p></p><p>Most monsters use a D8 for hit points, and the hit points listed in the MM reflect an average roll of 4.5 per dice, plus CON modifier.</p><p></p><p>Applying Empower Spell to that dice roll would grant +2 per hit dice (+3 for D12 monsters). On top of the CON boost that would mean +4 per dice, more if it started with an odd number in the CON score. Considering the 4.5 base average roll, that means that we'd nearly double the hit points.</p><p></p><p>+2 AC from Dex increase, with a matching Init increase, +2 to hit and damage from the Strength boost, +2 to all Saves and Skill checks.</p><p></p><p>Suddenly summoned monsters get notably kickass.</p><p></p><p>Opinions? Should it work this way? Would you, as a DM, accept this as a valid interpretation?</p><p></p><p>How about Maximize Spell being applied?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 6982843, member: 6669384"] What happens when you apply the Empower Spell feat to a Summon Monster x spell? At first glance, it looks like it wouldn't do much, if anything. Yeah, there a dice roll if you use Summon Monster X to call for a number of monsters from the Summon Monster X-1 table, but that's not usually your A game. After 1st level Summoned monsters are about half the CR of the caster, which often makes them little more than speed bumps in an actual battle. What I'm wondering is whether it applies to the implied random numbers inherent in the monster itself? As in, ability scores and hit dice. Monster ability scores, straight out of the book, are based on a standard array to which racial modifiers are applied. That is, 10, 11, 10, 11, 10, 11. These are the average of a 3 D6 being rolled. (The average is 10.5, hence the split). In theory though a DM running a monster from the book could use a different base, such as the Elite array, or even (gasp) roll the actual dice. If we read that "standard array" as the result of an average dice roll then Empower spell would add 5 to every ability score. Most monsters use a D8 for hit points, and the hit points listed in the MM reflect an average roll of 4.5 per dice, plus CON modifier. Applying Empower Spell to that dice roll would grant +2 per hit dice (+3 for D12 monsters). On top of the CON boost that would mean +4 per dice, more if it started with an odd number in the CON score. Considering the 4.5 base average roll, that means that we'd nearly double the hit points. +2 AC from Dex increase, with a matching Init increase, +2 to hit and damage from the Strength boost, +2 to all Saves and Skill checks. Suddenly summoned monsters get notably kickass. Opinions? Should it work this way? Would you, as a DM, accept this as a valid interpretation? How about Maximize Spell being applied? [/QUOTE]
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