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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 2339712" data-attributes="member: 29014">Persistent is +6, and Unconditional, if allowed, would be +5.  Then remember that Improved Metamagic knocks those down by 1.  Also, I don't think I can see much reason for someone to need to stick those two on the same spell very often, if ever (after all, with the 24-hour duration, you probably aren't going to have to cast it while stunned).  But for an attack spell, for instance, you could quicken-twin-empower-maximise it for +9.  I guess you might have more metamagic feats than that, but some day you will run out of things to add on.  Much easier, in my opinion, to allow multiple twins or empowers and just houserule edge cases (like Awaken) away.  Then again, many people don't play into epic.  Whatever works for you though.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>