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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5693983" data-attributes="member: 6674931">agreed.I don't see any vs there. They both say the same thing.All Enchantment-Charms + Enchantment-compulsions with "ongoing control"I agree with Vegepygmy again. Charms don't "control", they alter attitudes. SRD is pretty clear when it distinguishes charms from compulsions. Even if you manage to force someone to act against his nature with a charm effect, this does not mean you are in control of his mind. He acts against his nature because he respects/admires/loves/revers you so that he'd rather please you even if the action is not to his benefit....but this debate over charms does not help much, for both spells (PFE + Disobedience) specify that they protect against ALL charms (no matter if one translates "charm" into "mental control" or not).OTOH they do not grant protection against ALL compulsions. They protect against compulsions that grant "ongoing control" over the subject....and even though I 'm 99,9% certain that those two protection spells work as we agreed, I can't help but wonder why they say the following:or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person).to exercise mental control over the subject creature, including charm and compulsion effects that grant ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person or a vampire’s dominate ability....So what other "mental control" abilities are there?It is as if there are a bunch of mental control abilities (and NOT necessarily "ongoing") out there that those two spells protect against, which also INCLUDE charms + ongoing-control-compulsions. It is as if the charms + ongoing-control-compulsions is a set included in the "mental control" package. Even psionic abilities abide to those two enchantment sub-schools, so they can't be psionic powers either.So what else does this "mental control" package include?Moreover, when talking about ongoing-control-compulsions, they both mention dominate person (such as...) as if there are more! Personally i don't see any other spell (or spell based effect) that covers those specifications. Are there any others you can think of?I hope my dubiousness is clear... (and not just stupid! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />)</blockquote>

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