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<blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5694057" data-attributes="member: 6674931">Indeed, but the point remains that charms not only do they not grant control, but they also have no subcategories... whilst compulsions do (Vegepygmy has underlined those subcategories in his second post).So IMO, it is natural to assume that &quot;ongoing control&quot; is referring to compulsions ONLY.And this is because some charm effects are more powerful than others, none of which grants mental control.Even if you manage to force someone to act against his nature with a charm effect, this does not mean you are in control of his mind. He acts against his nature because he respects/admires/loves/revers you so that he'd rather please you even if the action is not to his benefit. You've magically affected his mind in a way that he now likes you and considers you a friend. The more he likes you, the more he is going to do for you.But under no circumstances do you mentally control him. He makes his own decisions based on the induced friendship.I don't think this is possible with undead and other mindless beings. Mental control, requires a mind to be controlled.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jimlock, post: 5694057, member: 6674931"] Indeed, but the point remains that charms not only do they not grant control, but they also have no subcategories... whilst compulsions do (Vegepygmy has underlined those subcategories in his second post). So IMO, it is natural to assume that "ongoing control" is referring to compulsions ONLY. And this is because some charm effects are more powerful than others, none of which grants mental control. Even if you manage to force someone to act against his nature with a charm effect, this does not mean you are in control of his mind. He acts against his nature because he respects/admires/loves/revers you so that he'd rather please you even if the action is not to his benefit. You've magically affected his mind in a way that he now likes you and considers you a friend. The more he likes you, the more he is going to do for you. But under no circumstances do you mentally control him. He makes his own decisions based on the induced friendship. I don't think this is possible with undead and other mindless beings. Mental control, requires a mind to be controlled. [/QUOTE]

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