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<blockquote data-quote="Jimlock" data-source="post: 5694838" data-attributes="member: 6674931">Not fair. I did specify. I ll' quote myself:This is how I justify the fact that all undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects.My point was that when a cleric commands/turns/rebukes an undead, he does not exercise &quot;mental control&quot; over the undead because Command Undead/Rebuke Undead/Turn Undead are NOT mind-affecting effects and because undead are immune to mind-affecting effects... in response to:and in response to:Therefore an undead cannot shield itself with Protection-against-Good/Neutral/Evil... and Disobedience, against Command/Turn/Rebuke Moreover no Command-like spell (Command, Command Undead, Command Plants...) can be banned by PFE and Disobedience. Even the simple &quot;Command&quot; which affects living creatures gets through, because even if it is mind affecting (Command - Enchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting]) it is also an Enchantment-compulsion that does NOT grant &quot;ongoing control&quot;:You give the subject a single command, which it obeys to the best of its ability at its earliest opportunity. in response to:So, again, this leaves Dominate Person/Monster as the single effect that PFE + Disobedience can block.So why &quot;...to exercise mental control over the subject creature, including...&quot; ???So what other mental control effects are there? why this such as Dominate Person ???What are the rest since Dominate effects are just an example?Is it simply badly written or are we/am I missing something?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jimlock, post: 5694838, member: 6674931"] Not fair. I did specify. I ll' quote myself: This is how I justify the fact that all undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects. My point was that when a cleric commands/turns/rebukes an undead, he does not exercise "mental control" over the undead because Command Undead/Rebuke Undead/Turn Undead are NOT mind-affecting effects and because undead are immune to mind-affecting effects... in response to: and in response to: Therefore an undead cannot shield itself with Protection-against-Good/Neutral/Evil... and Disobedience, against Command/Turn/Rebuke Moreover no Command-like spell (Command, Command Undead, Command Plants...) can be banned by PFE and Disobedience. Even the simple "Command" which affects living creatures gets through, because even if it is mind affecting ([COLOR="Olive"][U]Command - Enchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting][/U][/COLOR]) it is also an Enchantment-compulsion that does NOT grant "ongoing control": [COLOR="olive"]You give the subject [COLOR="Lime"][B]a single command[/B][/COLOR], which it obeys to the best of its ability at its earliest opportunity. [/COLOR] in response to: So, again, this leaves Dominate Person/Monster as the single effect that PFE + Disobedience can block. So why "[COLOR="Olive"]...to exercise mental control over the subject creature, [COLOR="Lime"][B]including[/B][/COLOR]...[/COLOR]" ??? So what other mental control effects are there? why this[COLOR="Olive"] [COLOR="Lime"]such as [/COLOR]Dominate Person[/COLOR] ??? What are the rest since Dominate effects are just an example? Is it simply badly written or are we/am I missing something? [/QUOTE]

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