Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Encounter-based Design: The only smart elephant in the room
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 5967857" data-attributes="member: 710"><p>Without wanting to sound too bitter or cynical or whatever: </p><p></p><p>I think the D&D Next approach can be rather simple here: If problems existed in past editions, they don't need to be fixed entirely. We can later give people modules to fix it, or we don't do it all, since we tried to fix a lot of things in 4E and guess what - we split the fanbase and annoyed a lot of people. We may have removed or fixed a lot of issues, but we brought a lot of new ones, most importantly, that people simply didn't want these things to be fixed if it took away elements that people considered "core" to the D&D experience. Even if not all did, enough did.</p><p></p><p>Taking away Vancian spellcasting and daily resources does not fit <em>any</em> edition of D&D. Every edition, including 4E, had it! If you take it away now, you are very likely to annoy a lot of people.</p><p></p><p>Again, it sounds overly negative or cynical, but I think D&D next is simply not the edition we will see a lot of innovation. It won't be quite a retro-clone either, and I figure some lessons from 4E will be retained, but it won't make big sweeping changes. Sacred Cows will not be slaughtered, and some may even be revived. There may be modules to slaughter them again or get back some more esoteric ones, but the core will most likely be closer to the experience of past editions, and Daily Spell Slots and the potential for novaing (realized in some play styles, never seen in others) were part of that.</p><p></p><p>The fundamental problem is of course nothing with "nostalgia" or whatever - it's simply that one person's feature is another person's bug. If your play style didn't make novaing a problem and instead daily powers was a way to facilitate operation play, e.g. clever resource management, taking that away is taking away a significant part of your enjoyment why you play. But if on the other hand your group likes to Nova, maybe because they want incredibly hard-core brutal tight battles and need every resources they can get, then novaing becomes a problem of the system - not because of the Nova, but because after the Nova the adventuring day is over. Not having daily resources doesn't satisfy the first group, having them causes problems in terms of adventure pacing for the second. You cannot make both happy. Fixing the problem of group 2 introduces a problem for group 1. So, the "core rule" should probably be, guided by that this is not any game, but D&D, that we treat daily resources and operation play as a feature we want by default and will make it into the core.</p><p></p><p>So, maybe, not having daily powers at all may make a <em>fine module</em>, but it's not <em>core</em>. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> [spoiler]That's the new version of: "This would make a fine houserule, but it's not RAW"[/spoiler]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mustrum_Ridcully, post: 5967857, member: 710"] Without wanting to sound too bitter or cynical or whatever: I think the D&D Next approach can be rather simple here: If problems existed in past editions, they don't need to be fixed entirely. We can later give people modules to fix it, or we don't do it all, since we tried to fix a lot of things in 4E and guess what - we split the fanbase and annoyed a lot of people. We may have removed or fixed a lot of issues, but we brought a lot of new ones, most importantly, that people simply didn't want these things to be fixed if it took away elements that people considered "core" to the D&D experience. Even if not all did, enough did. Taking away Vancian spellcasting and daily resources does not fit [I]any[/I] edition of D&D. Every edition, including 4E, had it! If you take it away now, you are very likely to annoy a lot of people. Again, it sounds overly negative or cynical, but I think D&D next is simply not the edition we will see a lot of innovation. It won't be quite a retro-clone either, and I figure some lessons from 4E will be retained, but it won't make big sweeping changes. Sacred Cows will not be slaughtered, and some may even be revived. There may be modules to slaughter them again or get back some more esoteric ones, but the core will most likely be closer to the experience of past editions, and Daily Spell Slots and the potential for novaing (realized in some play styles, never seen in others) were part of that. The fundamental problem is of course nothing with "nostalgia" or whatever - it's simply that one person's feature is another person's bug. If your play style didn't make novaing a problem and instead daily powers was a way to facilitate operation play, e.g. clever resource management, taking that away is taking away a significant part of your enjoyment why you play. But if on the other hand your group likes to Nova, maybe because they want incredibly hard-core brutal tight battles and need every resources they can get, then novaing becomes a problem of the system - not because of the Nova, but because after the Nova the adventuring day is over. Not having daily resources doesn't satisfy the first group, having them causes problems in terms of adventure pacing for the second. You cannot make both happy. Fixing the problem of group 2 introduces a problem for group 1. So, the "core rule" should probably be, guided by that this is not any game, but D&D, that we treat daily resources and operation play as a feature we want by default and will make it into the core. So, maybe, not having daily powers at all may make a [I]fine module[/I], but it's not [I]core[/I]. :) [spoiler]That's the new version of: "This would make a fine houserule, but it's not RAW"[/spoiler] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Encounter-based Design: The only smart elephant in the room
Top