D&D 5E Encounter Building - Adventuring Day XP Budget?

[kronovan]

My Adventures in Middle Earth 5e book is on the horizon and approaching fast, so I'm gearing up for a new campaign. Previously I ran a series of adventures for my homebrewed setting, which got me familiar and comfortable with building decent, balanced encounter using the guidelines in the DM Guide as a base-line/starting point. What I'm not comfortable with is the adventuring day guidelines on page 84 of the DM Guide - IME just too high an XP challenge between long rests. Those guideline mention 6-8 medium to hard encounters between long rests, with a max of 2 short rests as being optimal, which hasn't been my experience - especially in the lower levels of tier 2 & 3.

So the other day I was googling around and found an article about a different approach that supposed to have been influenced by new encounter guidelines that Mike Merls is working on; wish I'd save the link, but unfortunately I didn't. The article discussed basing the adventuring day encounter XP on 2 times a "hard" party encounter. That ends up being considerably less that what's stated in the DMG. Now I'm well aware that there's often the opportunity to just wing it for rests as needed, but with a setting that uses a different implementation of the 5e rules and with an added journeying play mechanic, I want to at least begin with a days worth of encounters that are based on a viable/workable formula.

So I'm wondering what other DM's that created their own encounters do in determining their adventuring day XP budgets?

 

[Tony Vargas]

I'm not comfortable with is the adventuring day guidelines on page 84 of the DM Guide - IME just too high an XP challenge between long rests. Those guideline mention 6-8 medium to hard encounters between long rests, with a max of 2 short rests as being optimal, which hasn't been my experience - especially in the lower levels of tier 2 & 3.

That guideline is in response to fan desires for a class-balancing adventuring day. It's a way of re-establishing class balance in spite of having classes with radically different resource schedules: you figure out a number of encounters and short rest between each long rest that puts mostly-long-rest vs mostly-short-rest vs mostly-at-will classes on approximately equal footing over the course of the 'day.' Deviate from it and class balance suffers.

It's a critically important, delicate balancing act - if you care about class balance in the sense of wanting the classes to balance. If you don't care about (or revel in) class imbalance - then there's no need to follow the guideline (or every reason to consistently avoid it).

 

[Syntallah]

I have started using a milestone Resting System:

"Resting is governed by a milestone system. Approximately every third of an adventuring day qualifies the Party for a rest: Short, Short, and Long. For example, if the party at their current level, can be expected to face 24000xp worth of encounters in a day, then after 8000xp they qualify for a Short rest. After another 8000xp (total of 16000xp), they qualify for another Short rest, and after yet another 8000xp (total of 24000xp) they qualify for a Long rest."

So, after the above Party has faced 8000xp worth of encounters (it's important to grant experience points for appropriate non-combat encounters), the very next time they can stop, and relax for an hour, they regain all expended Short Rest abilities (e.g. Second Wind, dragonborn breath weapon, Channel Divinity, etc). After that, until they face another 8000xp, they can take all the one hour breaks they want, but they will not recharge their Short Rest abilities by doing so...

 

[WarpedAcorn]

So I'm wondering what other DM's that created their own encounters do in determining their adventuring day XP budgets?

Personally...I'm still working on it. I think it worked best when I introduced a 2-Floor Dungeon and the players felt that leaving the Dungeon was a bad idea. For this reason they pushed through, taking x2 Short Rests. This included x4 combat encounters of varying difficulty, 1.5 encounters they avoided, and 1.5 encounters completely missed. After the dungeon they had another encounter (non-combat) that they talked/skilled their way through, and finally before a legit Long Rest I had 1 last Easy encounter.

I think the group really enjoyed the last few encounters, because usually they had all their resources at their disposal, so having a very limited supply of HP, Spell Slots, and abilities really increased the intensity of the encounters. But I have had a hard time doing this without the help of a Dungeon.

So one thing I am doing moving forward is to say that a Long Rest can only occur in a "safe place", such as at a town, inn, etc...but not while traveling in situations where you have to set up a "watch order". That way my daily adventuring budget can be spread easily over a couple of days and I don't feel I have to have "worthless" encounters just to eat up resources so I feel like the players are being challenged.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I ignore ignore the daily XP budget, I just create encounters. Sometimes there will be only a single encounter in a day, others might have 3-4 with no short rest in between going from long rest to long rest. It really just depends on the area and the needs of the group. Some sessions the short rest classes benefit, other times the long rest classes benefit.

I do the exact same thing. I design adventure areas based on what makes sense for that area. Sometimes there are only a couple encounters before the party can long rest. Other times there are over a dozen. It just all depends on what is happening in the game, and what the PCs do, and how anything around them would react to what the PCs have done.

 

[draxthis]

...a Long Rest can only occur in a "safe place", such as at a town, inn, etc...but not while traveling in situations where you have to set up a "watch order".

I have a couple of questions around this. While I understand your point, could this lead to a false sense of security in a town or inn? Wouldn't the party set up a watch there too? What about the adventures that go deep into mountains without a town nearby?

I am curious because I am planning several adventures for home and I am looking into this topic now. I agree with you that I would not want to set up worthless encounters but I would not want to set up a random town just to accommodate a long rest.

 

[S'mon]

So I'm wondering what other DM's that created their own encounters do in determining their adventuring day XP budgets?

I can't say I set a budget, but Mearls' "2 hard" guideline looks a lot closer to my typical game than 6-8 medium-hard/day.

Yesterday I killed the 14th level Cleric in my high level 5e group; it turned out that he had been almost completely drained by the first encounter of the day (CR 11 Remorhaz vs Clr-14 & Bbn-16) and was well under max hp when they and their BBn-13 friend were later ambushed by a CR-17 death knight. He'd already used all his hd and apparently most of his spell slots too.

 

[The_Gneech]

Honestly, the idea of daily XP budget has never really registered with me anyway. I know such things exist, but I can't seem to find a way to make them relevant. I try to build scenarios with a naturalistic focus, so there are a pretty wide variety of safe spots, dangerous spots, and spots that are somewhere in between. Usually the players are good monitors of how much they can handle (or want to risk) based on the stakes at hand, so I inform of the relative security of any given space and they will decide when (or if) to rest.

I also use a wandering monster table, and something that explicitly triggers a check is "taking a rest," unless the party has retreated to a town/keep/other base of operations or has otherwise figured out a way to hide from passers-by. Among other things, this keeps the characters from pulling the "One encounter, then rest!" routine unless they really feel like they have to.

Whenever the topic of "how long should an adventuring day be"/"how many encounters in a day" comes up, I remember the Alexandrian's article on "The Death of the Wandering Monster," here: http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/1668/roleplaying-games/the-death-of-the-wandering-monster

-The Gneech

 

[Tony Vargas]

Honestly, the idea of daily XP budget has never really registered with me anyway. I know such things exist, but I can't seem to find a way to make them relevant...
I also use a wandering monster table. ...Among other things, this keeps the characters from pulling the "One encounter, then rest!" routine unless they really feel like they have to.

Ah, Wandering Damage Tables. That takes me back. Seriously, though, in a sense you are using an exp budget of sorts, just one mediated by a random generation method instead of a formula.

 

[Syntallah]

Good article (except the part where he calls the problem “bad DMing”), and I hear what you’re saying. The 5 Minute Workday, and the players controlling pacing, is why I have adopted the Milestone Rest System. I, the DM, decide when a Rest is a Rest [note the capitalization there, the Party is free to rest/relax whenever/wherever they want. I even have a house rule called Triage wherein a PC can expend healing dice in a two minute act with a use from a Healing Kit].

With that being said, wandering monsters are not the primo answer that they’re cracked up to be. My Party consists of a 15th lvl paladin, a 15th lvl barbarian, a 14th lvl cleric, and a 6th / 9th cleric/ranger.

Party Leader: DM we’re going to make camp, set a watch, and rest for the evening
DM: Roger that… [rolls dice behind the curtain of lies, and laughs quietly]. Aha! You are beset upon by a [looks down] herd of bison..! That will show you that you shouldn’t rest out here in the wild..!

Obviously I am exaggerating a bit, but unless you’re in a real bad place, the random monsters of a given area just aren’t going to scare a decent Party. Not to mention that the PHB [pg 186] says that 1 hour of fighting or similar adventuring activity is needed before nullifying a rest. A typical combat lasts what, 3, 5, 7 rounds? 42 seconds is considerably less than that… By the time I send in my 17th stampede of bison, the Party Leader is simply going to look at me and say “DM, now, we’re going to make camp, set a watch, and rest for the late evening / early morning.” Murder Hobos don’t have bedtimes, or work schedules.

And not all the story arcs that I tell involve bad places, and end-of-the-world time schedules. Right now, the Party is tracking an orc shaman through the foothills towards some mountains in the Forgotten Realms. Again, just about anything on a Wandering Monster table just isn’t going to do it…

Anyway, is the Milestone Rest System perfect? Nope, but it does what I need it to do, and I throw it out there in answer to the OP’s question.