Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Encounter Concept: Wall Running Assassin
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7843292" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>You probably couldn't though. If you have a five-person party, and you make an AL-legal PC-style character (not a Legendary NPC) who is within, say, six-eight levels of them (so mid-tier rather than end-of-campaign, as you say), and he's not trying to kill them, just the target, then unless they are inept, he's going to get stopped, because he's going to fail a save or get grappled and fail his escape checks. Which is going to be hilarious for the players but perhaps not for you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel like you have limited experience with different groups, or maybe have actually never been a player that you think this. I've played and DM'd for 30 years with a lot of different groups and seen a lot of stuff across a lot of RPGs, and I can say with some confidence that players, as a group, do not see "a dragon" and a single humanoid NPC as the same sort of thing in this kind of scenario.</p><p></p><p>Your group might not. That is possible - there's all sort of strangeness out there. But I would say most groups would.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because you're not <em>thinking like a player</em>. I get it. It sounds cool. It sounds awesome. As a DM, it's exciting (in part because it's almost like being a player - because there's more than a hint of GMPC - especially if you build him rules-legal). We've all been there. But if you as a DM, have never introduced an enemy you thought was awesome the players would respond well to, and have never got a surprising "naughty word this guy in particular" response from the players, one that doesn't reflect him being awesome, then maybe you have lead some sort of charmed DMing life.</p><p></p><p>And bear in mind - <em>professional game designers have made this mistake</em>. I don't know if you've played Mass Effect 3, but it a near-universally-loathed NPC called Kai Leng. He is basically this guy. No-one at Bioware is an idiot. Everyone involved in the writing had made many games before. Yet they still thought "Wow this guy will be an awesome baddy and the players will think it's cool to fight him and lose and eventually get to kill him!" and they totally thought wrong! People just thought it was rubbish, and that he was a rubbish cheesy opponent.</p><p></p><p>You are <em>not dumb</em> for thinking this is a good idea. But I do strongly believe - with some actual evidence, both from stuff like ME3 and personal experience with different groups - that "solo ninjas kills the dude you are protecting" or "solo ninja cheesily beats you and runs away" doesn't tend to go down well.</p><p></p><p>Yes your players may be an exception. There's probably a group out there which cooks haggis instead of ordering pizza, or which drinks champagne every session instead of beer. But that's about how unusual I think this would be.</p><p></p><p>I do strongly urge you to do the social experiment, though only if you will do it in good faith!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 7843292, member: 18"] You probably couldn't though. If you have a five-person party, and you make an AL-legal PC-style character (not a Legendary NPC) who is within, say, six-eight levels of them (so mid-tier rather than end-of-campaign, as you say), and he's not trying to kill them, just the target, then unless they are inept, he's going to get stopped, because he's going to fail a save or get grappled and fail his escape checks. Which is going to be hilarious for the players but perhaps not for you. I feel like you have limited experience with different groups, or maybe have actually never been a player that you think this. I've played and DM'd for 30 years with a lot of different groups and seen a lot of stuff across a lot of RPGs, and I can say with some confidence that players, as a group, do not see "a dragon" and a single humanoid NPC as the same sort of thing in this kind of scenario. Your group might not. That is possible - there's all sort of strangeness out there. But I would say most groups would. Because you're not [I]thinking like a player[/I]. I get it. It sounds cool. It sounds awesome. As a DM, it's exciting (in part because it's almost like being a player - because there's more than a hint of GMPC - especially if you build him rules-legal). We've all been there. But if you as a DM, have never introduced an enemy you thought was awesome the players would respond well to, and have never got a surprising "naughty word this guy in particular" response from the players, one that doesn't reflect him being awesome, then maybe you have lead some sort of charmed DMing life. And bear in mind - [I]professional game designers have made this mistake[/I]. I don't know if you've played Mass Effect 3, but it a near-universally-loathed NPC called Kai Leng. He is basically this guy. No-one at Bioware is an idiot. Everyone involved in the writing had made many games before. Yet they still thought "Wow this guy will be an awesome baddy and the players will think it's cool to fight him and lose and eventually get to kill him!" and they totally thought wrong! People just thought it was rubbish, and that he was a rubbish cheesy opponent. You are [I]not dumb[/I] for thinking this is a good idea. But I do strongly believe - with some actual evidence, both from stuff like ME3 and personal experience with different groups - that "solo ninjas kills the dude you are protecting" or "solo ninja cheesily beats you and runs away" doesn't tend to go down well. Yes your players may be an exception. There's probably a group out there which cooks haggis instead of ordering pizza, or which drinks champagne every session instead of beer. But that's about how unusual I think this would be. I do strongly urge you to do the social experiment, though only if you will do it in good faith! [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Encounter Concept: Wall Running Assassin
Top