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<blockquote data-quote="Philip Benz" data-source="post: 8521099" data-attributes="member: 6975782">I agree that the close calls are often the most memorable.But I don't agree with Retreater that we need 4e-style minions. As I tried to illustrate, adversaries that are &quot;party level -4&quot; are &quot;minion-y&quot; enough. Once you get to the level of my last adventure, with 12th-level PCs and 8th-level &quot;minion-style&quot; adversaries they can even be credible threats, given that the encounter budget encourages using more of them. They certainly make good &quot;fillers&quot; to keep larger parties of adventurers busy while their master gets off a few more actions than he might otherwise.Staffan, I only agree with part of your statements, when you say, &quot;level 1 PCs have no reserves. They don't have any potions or scrolls for emergencies, they don't have any lower-level fallback spells, and a crit from a same-level foe may very well KO them even from full hit points.&quot;Here's why I disagree:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Level 1 PCs do have lower-level fallback spells. They're called cantrips and they are unlimited. You can do a lot of clever things with the right cantrips, not simply inflict a handful of hitpoints on an adversary once a round.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Many level 1 PCs have enough cash to buy one healing potion at character creation, and in many settings and adventures, there are sympathetic NPCs somewhere nearby who could possibly be convinced to supply more. That's an entirely DM-dependent call.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">If a same-level foe kills a PC from full hit points, perhaps the DM (or the adventure designer) gave that 1st-level foe too hefty a weapon. Also, it's quite difficult to actually die in PF2, unless your whole group is reduced to the dying condition. And even then, you have multiple chances to recover from it on your own, if some nasty monster isn't actually eating you.</li>
</ul>I would certainly agree that 1st-level PCs have fewer reserves than later in their career, but the challenges they are called to face are also proportionately less dangerous. Unless you are playing one of a few notoriously deadly early Paizo APs. Then, may the Gods take pity on you. -g-</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Philip Benz, post: 8521099, member: 6975782"] I agree that the close calls are often the most memorable. But I don't agree with Retreater that we need 4e-style minions. As I tried to illustrate, adversaries that are "party level -4" are "minion-y" enough. Once you get to the level of my last adventure, with 12th-level PCs and 8th-level "minion-style" adversaries they can even be credible threats, given that the encounter budget encourages using more of them. They certainly make good "fillers" to keep larger parties of adventurers busy while their master gets off a few more actions than he might otherwise. Staffan, I only agree with part of your statements, when you say, [I]"level 1 PCs have no reserves. They don't have any potions or scrolls for emergencies, they don't have any lower-level fallback spells, and a crit from a same-level foe may very well KO them even from full hit points."[/I] Here's why I disagree: [LIST] [*]Level 1 PCs [B]do[/B] have lower-level fallback spells. They're called cantrips and they are unlimited. You can do a lot of clever things with the right cantrips, not simply inflict a handful of hitpoints on an adversary once a round. [*]Many level 1 PCs have enough cash to buy one healing potion at character creation, and in many settings and adventures, there are sympathetic NPCs somewhere nearby who could possibly be convinced to supply more. That's an entirely DM-dependent call. [*]If a same-level foe kills a PC from full hit points, perhaps the DM (or the adventure designer) gave that 1st-level foe too hefty a weapon. Also, it's quite difficult to actually die in PF2, unless your whole group is reduced to the dying condition. And even then, you have multiple chances to recover from it on your own, if some nasty monster isn't actually eating you. [/LIST] I would certainly agree that 1st-level PCs have [B]fewer[/B] reserves than later in their career, but the challenges they are called to face are also proportionately less dangerous. Unless you are playing one of a few notoriously deadly early Paizo APs. Then, may the Gods take pity on you. -g- [/QUOTE]

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