Encounter Level questions

[SRD]

The DMG says a monster's level represents a fair (standard) challenge for a party of 5.

1) I'd like to know how I can calculate its challenge if the party has a different number of people (say 3), but preferably based on solid rules.

1a) Also for the above situation, what would be a "hard" or "easy" challenge?

2) Also, the reverse. If I know my party size, and what monsters I want in an encounter, how can I find out how *many* of each type of monster do I need in that encounter (eg. is it better 2x lvl2 monsters + 1x lvl3 monster, or 2x lvl3 monsters)?

Thanks.

 

[Dice4Hire]

The DMG says a monster's level represents a fair (standard) challenge for a party of 5.

1) I'd like to know how I can calculate its challenge if the party has a different number of people (say 3), but preferably based on solid rules.

DMG page 57 for the info on levels from 3 to 5 character in a party per level 1-30

Level 4 pcs 5 pcs 6 pcs
1 400 500 600
2 500 625 750
3 600 750 900

The table above is levels 1-3 of that chart.

1a) Also for the above situation, what would be a "hard" or "easy" challenge?

Easy would be level or maybe level +1, in my experience.

Hard would be level +2 or +3 in my experience

2) Also, the reverse. If I know my party size, and what monsters I want in an encounter, how can I find out how *many* of each type of monster do I need in that encounter (eg. is it better 2x lvl2 monsters + 1x lvl3 monster, or 2x lvl3 monsters)?

Thanks.

Well, that is part of the choice. You could do one big bad for the whole xp budget, or a huge swarm of minions. It depends on your party, and what they are good at fighting. I would generally not have fewer monsters than the number of players, as then the solo baddie has trouble with a lot fewer actions than the party.

 

[Tony Vargas]

BTW, I hope you're talking about 4e...

The DMG says a monster's level represents a fair (standard) challenge for a party of 5.

Five Standard monsters or a Solo of the party's level, yes. Note that a 'standard' fight is not supposed to be all that hard, it's outcome is not supposed to be in doubt - the PCs will win, they might win while expending few resources (just encounters and a surge or two), or they might feel the need to pull out a big gun, or take more damage than they might have hoped.

An 'easy' fight (a couple levels below the party) isn't even the speed bump a standard fight is. A party might even be able to skip the usual short rest after an easy fight.

1) I'd like to know how I can calculate its challenge if the party has a different number of people (say 3), but preferably based on solid rules.

The DMG has those rules. I know the table doesn't have parties of 3 on it, but it's trivially easy to derive it. Just note the difference between party of 4 and party of 5, and subtract that from the party of 4.

1a) Also for the above situation, what would be a "hard" or "easy" challenge?

A hard challenge is say two to 4 levels higher than the party. An easy challenge is 2 or more levels lower.

One thing to take into acount, though, is that there has been some power inflation and some changes in design philosophy. A MM1 montster will probably not give it's full advertised level worth of challenge to an anything-goes party with all currently available material. A MM3 monster of the same nominal level might really maul them.

2) Also, the reverse. If I know my party size, and what monsters I want in an encounter, how can I find out how *many* of each type of monster do I need in that encounter (eg. is it better 2x lvl2 monsters + 1x lvl3 monster, or 2x lvl3 monsters)?

Look up the standard encounter exp in the DMG, and just add up the monsters' exp values until you hit or go over the standard encounter total. Be very careful of using monsters more than a few level difference from the party. While an encounter can have a 'level +4' experience total, it shouldn't be made up of level+4 monsters...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

DMG Page 56 is all you need. The XP rewards chart shows the XP for a monster of each level in the first column ('standard monster'). Multiply this by the number of PCs in the party and you have the XP budget for an equal level encounter. If you want a higher or lower level encounter then use the row of the table for the encounter level you want. So for a 4th level encounter for 3 PCs it is 175 XP x 3 = 525 XP. You can buy any sorts of monsters and traps that total 525 XP and you have a level 4 encounter. Note though that you probably don't want to use monsters less than 2 levels below the party level or more than 3 levels above it even though the budget would allow for it.

As for how hard encounters are, that is highly dependent on the situation. An equal level encounter should always be generally somewhere between a speedbump and a modest challenge. A level +5 encounter will be quite difficult for most groups, impossible for some, but at times can be trivial for very well prepared and skilled groups of players at high levels.

The MM3 type monster design guideline changes do have a definite impact, especially at higher levels. If you either adjust existing pre-MM3 monsters to MM3 guidelines for damage etc or use actual MM3 monsters then things can be tougher.

If you are just starting out my advice is create a couple of fairly weak encounters to begin with. They MAY turn out to be trivial but they will be over quickly and give the group a chance to have a shakedown so they can start learning how to coordinate tactics and whatnot. Even if the players know the rules pretty well that isn't a bad idea. Based on how it goes (say for 3 level 1 PCs toss them a 200 XP encounter first) you'll have a good idea of how much they can handle. You can always add a couple minions to an encounter or a standard monster even at the last minute if you're finding they're just blowing through things, or turn a standard into a couple minions if they are struggling a lot.

 

[OnlineDM]

By the way, if you want a rule to figure out the XP budget for a given level of encounter for an unusual number of player characters, the other way to do it is:

Your XP budget = Five-player budget x Your number of players / 5.

So, if you have three players you multiply the 5 PCs experience budget from page 57 of the Dungeon Masters Guide by 3/5 (or 60% or 0.6). If you have seven player you multiply by 7/5 (or 140% or 1.4).

Also, my rule of thumb is to never use any monster whose level is more than 5 levels above the party. So, a level 3 party should never face any monster of level 9 or higher. At that level, the monsters just become nearly impossible for the party to hit and the monster hardly ever misses. It can be okay to put together a really hard encounter for the party if you want, but go with a larger number of monsters that are a few levels higher than the party, not just one monster that's 10 levels above the party. Even though the XP budget may be the same, the latter is not any fun.