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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bendris Noulg" data-source="post: 1379523" data-attributes="member: 6398">Alright, I think we're both cooling off here...  Nifty. Ah, now Feats I handle differently.  In fact, any player can bring me any spell, feat, skill use, weapon, etc., from any book for me to review for inclusion.  They just can't bring me Prestige Classes. Table Talk: If you mention a "cool" Prestige Class, I'd likely look it up later...  Even if the Prestige Class itself is rejected, I do consider the theme/role/concept of it, likely coming up with something that is more suitable for both the character and the campaign setting.  Obviously, not everything's going to make/create a new niche or fill an empty one, but the game does grow in that regard.  What's aimed for is a bit of mystique; Not everything is laid out for people in the real world and I see little reason for it to be so in a fantasy one (although "off stage" events allow fantasy goals to be accomplished much faster than real life goals). The thing is that I tend to do this "in secret".  That is to say, rather than say, "I have a Prestige Class I'm working on for your mounted Fighter," I'd instead have him meet (perhaps save) a member of a knightly order, which would have a Prestige Class suited for the PC. An example character: The player wants to play a mounted combatant.  Now, he might consider a half-dozen Prestige Classes, picks the one he wants, and then maps into it as quickly as possible.  Nothing wrong with that mechanically. Another example character: The player wants to be a mounted combatant.  He uses all the base material available (Skills, Feats, etc.) to become as good at it as possible.  Throughout the character's career, he's met the Chariot Warriors of Dael, the Host of Goshen, and the Mah'Don Knights (likely others, although he might be a tad too big for a Tasloi Wasp Rider).  He could easily, by returning to either of these lands and contacting friends amongst their ranks, gain access to these Prestige Classes, the requirements of which (all base options) would be easy for our well-trained-but-unstyled mounted combatant as he already has most (if no all) of the options available without the Prestige Classes.  He could very easily travel to each land and gain 1-2 levels or each, gaining the basics of several styles all the while. By not selecting options at the beginning, the player ends up with *more* options later. Another consideration: I (and most GMs) have little knowledge of what exact Prestige Classes are available at the beginning of a campaign.  A movie can inspire one.  A book might.  One might occur to me as I'm developing a culture or religion or some other aspect.  One might occur to me just looking at a character sheet and imagining a new direction of evolving the concept.  And, on rare occasions, I'll be flipping through a d20 book and actually find one that fits the campaign in both power and flavor.  By selecting a Prestige Class (and even multiclasses) at the very beginning of the game, and mapping to that Prestige Class, the player is effectively eliminating opportunities that, for all intents and purposes, don't exist yet but may indeed be better for the character (conceptually and/or numerically). All I ask of players is to relax about it, not to worry about a pre-mapped plan of advancement, and to trust me not unbalance the game or screw them over.  Those that do often become permanent features of my dining room (a mixed blessing?), while those that don't generally leave for their own inability to trust a GM rather than any act of maliciousness on my part. Y'know, I think more than a few conversations on this (and similar) topics tend to "go south" from time to time.  Sometimes comments sound malicious because they're similar to something posted by someone else at an earlier time who was being malicious.  I think we can just drop some of the chest puffing as a defensive mechanism running on autopilot due to earlier instances. Fair enough?</blockquote>

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