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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 3047360" data-attributes="member: 2011">So, your claim is that since they were not crystal clear with the spell critical hit rules (which have nothing to do with whether a weapon is a successful hit), that the energy weapon hit rules are unclear?Apples and oranges.A successful hit is required for a normal critical hit.A successful touch is required for a touch critical hit.A successful Touch Attack Roll is a "successful touch". It is not a successful hit.This is the start of Danny's slippery slope argument. Touches are not hits, but people keep claiming that.That is where the opposing POV has no solid rules support. No rules explicitly state that touches are hits.When you can illustrate that you hit when you touch (as opposed to you touch when you hit), then you have rules support.The entire argument boils down to one side allowing the word "hit" to mean "touch" and saying that since the designers were not totally precise in other rules (such as spell critical hits), that hit means any time you roll a D20 for a weapon and are successful.That's just not RAW true.A hit occurs when you roll greater than or equal to the normal AC.A touch occurs when you roll greater than or equal to the touch AC.An opposed touch occurs when you roll greater than (or equal to if you have the higher modifiers) the opposed touch attack roll (presumably, the rules here rely on the opposed skill rules).Truthfully answer me the following questions:Do you honestly believe that the designers wanted energy weapon damage to occur on touch attacks?Do you honestly think they wanted you to say "Hey, I cannot hit this guy with my weapon, but I can touch him with a touch attack and still burn him."?Do you honestly believe that Energy Weapons were meant as touch weapons? How about torches?</blockquote>

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