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Message: <blockquote data-quote="drnuncheon" data-source="post: 1488004" data-attributes="member: 96">That's a circular argument.  "Everything that kills memorized spells says it does." "What about this?" "Well, it doesn't say it kills memorized spells, so it doesn't."  "How do you know everything that kills memorized spells says so specifically?""Because some things that kill memorized spells say they do."Sorry, no logic points there."All cats are black.""What about that cat?""Well, it's not black, so it's not a cat.""How do you know all cats are black?""Because some cats are black."No, I want you to prove some rule that you appear to have made up out of whole cloth - that being, 'some effects of stat damage or drain do not occur immediately'.Granted, and not in dispute.Again granted.Again granted.None of this is in dispute.Exactly!  This is why, when you get a bonus spell slot, you can't use it immediately, even though you get it immediately.However, that does not apply to losing a slot.  If the lowering of your spells per day occurs immediately, as I contend, then you must lose a prepared spell - otherwise you would have more spells per day than you are permitted.Just as a lowering of the Con score causes an immediate lowering of both maximum and current hit points, a lowering of Intelligence (or level) causes an immediate lowering of both maximum and current spells per day.Not on my page 155. I'll dig out my 3.0 PHB, though.  It looks like the relevant text is the same, but you left a little bit out:"Certain other events, such as the effects of magic items or special attacks from monsters, can wipe a prepared spell from a character's mind."So clearly, it's possible to lose a prepared spell even if you don't deliberately abandon it or cast it.You must rest before regaining the use of any spell slots, you are correct. Again, nobody disputes this.But none of your quotes has anything to do with losing spell slots!  You are making a logical leap there that is unwarranted.Which claim nobody disputes.And there's the logical leap again.  You've talked again and again about how you can't use a spell slot until you've rested.  But you haven't made a single connection to the alleged fact that you don't lose a spell slot until you've rested.The crux of your argument seems to rest with the quote on page 155, which specifically allows that there may be other factors that cause a spell to be removed (and thus doesn't help your case any), and with the unwarranted assumption that because some abilities point out X, all abilities which have X must point it out.J</blockquote>

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