Enhancement penalty vs. stat damage

[Kerrick]

This came up in another thread, so I thought I'd get some clarification from the rules gurus.

Say you have a person with 11 con who takes a -2 enhancement penalty to Con. His Con is now effectively 9, but does that apply to his hit points as well as Fort saves and Con checks, or just the latter two? I know if he took 2 points of Con damage, it would, but how does an enhancement penalty work? How do you get rid of it? It's not damage, so it can't be healed with a lesser restoration... will rest cure it?

 

[Aust Diamondew]

1) Pretty sure penalties aren't of different types. So no enhancement penalty, just penalty.
2) Yes HP, fort saves, and con checks would all be effected.
3) Most ability penalties are inflicted by spells similar to ray of enfeeblement, which has a duration, when its duration expires or it is dispelled the effects end.

 

[Hypersmurf]

1) Pretty sure penalties aren't of different types. So no enhancement penalty, just penalty.

They aren't supposed to be, in 3.5, but I think a couple may have slipped through here and there.

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

How do you get rid of it? It's not damage, so it can't be healed with a lesser restoration... will rest cure it?

Lesser restoration doesn't "heal" it, but "Lesser restoration dispels any magical effects reducing one of the subject’s ability scores ..."

What effect gives a penalty to Con, btw?

 

[Maleketh]

<i>Bestow curse</i> comes to mind (it can apply a -6 penalty to any ability score).

 

[Kerrick]

They aren't supposed to be, in 3.5, but I think a couple may have slipped through here and there.

Okay, a straight penalty then. Like, say, fatigue. Fatigue (and exhaustion) incur penalties to Strength and Dex. There are a couple spells that cause fatigue (ray of fatigue, waves of exhaustion) and some enviromental effects also - extreme heat/cold, for instance. Resting for 8 hours will erase the effects of fatigue; bestow curse is a permanent magical effect.

Lesser restoration cures fatigue and reduces exhaustion to fatigue, so it would effectively "heal" those penalties. I should've looked at that before I wrote that question.

What effect gives a penalty to Con, btw?

I had thought to add a Con penalty to fatigue/exhaustion, since it seemed logical (you're getting worn down), but someone pointed out that a L1 commoner (or mage) with Con 10 and 3 hit points who took a -6 penalty to Con would be disabled (at 0 hp) and would likely fall unconscious.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I had thought to add a Con penalty to fatigue/exhaustion, since it seemed logical (you're getting worn down), but someone pointed out that a L1 commoner (or mage) with Con 10 and 3 hit points who took a -6 penalty to Con would be disabled (at 0 hp) and would likely fall unconscious.

Not unless he'd already taken damage.

Your maximum hit points have an absolute minimum of 1 per hit die, regardless of Con penalty.

-Hyp.

 

[UltimaGabe]

It's not damage, so it can't be healed with a lesser restoration... will rest cure it?

Except that Lesser Restoration specifically dispels any magic effect lowering a character's ability scores, such as Ray of Enfeeblement. This effect (whatever it is) would be dispelled, so long as it's magical. And if it's fatigue you're worrying about, Lesser Restoration heals that too.

In short, a Penalty to an ability score works just like Damage, though in most (all?) cases, it can't reduce the affected ability score below 1.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In short, a Penalty to an ability score works just like Damage, though in most (all?) cases, it can't reduce the affected ability score below 1.

Not all cases, which is why most of them need to spell out the minimum.

Fatigue, exhaustion, and entanglement are a few examples of effects that give penalties to ability scores with no minimum given.

-Hyp.

 

[Kerrick]

Not unless he'd already taken damage.

Your maximum hit points have an absolute minimum of 1 per hit die, regardless of Con penalty.

Ahh... good to know. I think I'll drop Con penalties from fatigue/exhaustion, though, and just go with the other rule I have, that if you fail the Con checks, you take Con damage instead of nonlethal damage.

Fatigue, exhaustion, and entanglement are a few examples of effects that give penalties to ability scores with no minimum given.

Yeah, it makes sense that you could be reduced to 0 effective Dex, since you can't move. Fatigue and exhaustion likewise - if you push yourself to the absolute limits, you could just collapse and not be able to move anymore.