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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1244804" data-attributes="member: 2011">I don't understand why people think reach is so overwhelming.If that were the case, then every Fighter would take a Spike Chain as a weapon.For the most part, reach gives you the ability to get the first attack per combat per opponent.Say you have two fighters using the same weapon and with the same 40% chance to hit.You enlarge one of the Fighters. What does he gain or lose?Gain:+2 damage per successful hit (+1 Str, +1 weapon upgrade)ReachLose:-2 AC (-1 size, -1 Dex)-1 Reflex savesFighting each other, the enlarged one (we'll call him F1 and the non-enlarged one F2) effectively gains the equivalent of initiative and nothing more (for the most part) due to the reach.If F2 runs up to F1, F1 gets an Attack of Opportunity, then F2 gets a standard action attack, then F1 gets a Full Attack, then F2 gets a Full Attack, etc. If F1 runs up to F2, F1 gets a standard action attack, then F2 gets a Full Attack, then F1 gets a Full Attack, etc.So basically, all the reach does is give F1 the first attack (and the ability to retreat without taking an AoO).Damage-wise (assuming that both fighters are doing single attacks) for 10 straight attacks, F1 does 10 * 40% * (normal damage +2). F2 does 10 * 50% (F1 has -2 AC) * normal damage.F1 does an average of 4 * normal + 8 points.F2 does an average of 5 * normal.If the fighters average (for this example) less than 8 points of damage per successful hit (due to damage dice + strength + magic), F1 does more average damage in the combat than F2. If the fighters average more than 8 points of damage per successful hit, F2 does more average damage in the combat than F1.Now, take the case where they both have a 10% chance to hit over a 10 straight attacks:F1 does an average of 1 * normal + 2 points.F2 does an average of 2 * normal.Average successful damage for nearly all Fighters will always be more than 2 points of damage, typically much more. The higher the AC of the Fighters, the more Enlarge Person hurts F1 over helping him.Now, this assumes that the initiative advantage for F1 is not that overwhelming. It could be. However, the longer the fight goes, the more average damage F2 does over F1. Plus, F1 also has the reflex save penalty.Being enlarged is more of a penalty (in many cases) than a bonus. The advantages of the spell are often overcome by the disadvantages. Against a whole bunch of low AC and low hit points opponents, it might be more beneficial than harmful. But, for the vast majority of scenarios, it is more harmful than beneficial.Now granted, using Enlarge Person to grapple or trip can be potent. No doubt about it. But, I do not see that as so overwhelmingly potent as to make Enlarge Person broke. It just makes it realistic.I personally think that the Enlarge Person is extremely wimpy (except in the grapple / trip scenarios) and I boosted it in my house rules to be +4 Str (instead of +2), +2 Con, and +10 to move (all of the spells in my game that increase size increase move) in addition to the standard bonuses and penalties that the spell provides.Since the original poster did not want to modify the spell, my suggestion is to just use it as is without modifications because it really doesn't help combat situations anywhere near as much as other first level spells: like putting Mage Armor on a Monk, casting Color Spray, casting Sleep, casting Magic Missile. All of these spells are much more potent than Enlarge Person in the vast majority of combat situations.</blockquote>

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