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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1246869" data-attributes="member: 2011">No problem.Ok, so they both have bows out and decide to trade shots.In my campaign (and probably most campaigns), Fighters have big strengths and quickly buy/use composite bows that allow max Strength bonus and/or buy/use magic arrows that add to damage. So, assuming four cases of attempting full round bow attacks each round and assuming that BAB starts overcoming AC by 10% every 5 levels (and ignoring criticals for now). The damage listed below is a cumulative total average (i.e. the amount done after that many rounds).1) Both Fighters have a Strength of 16 (i.e. do +3 damage with the bow due to comp bow or magic arrows) and have not yet gotten to BAB 6+ (40% chance to hit before Enlarged).2) Both Fighters have a Strength of 16 and have gotten to BAB 6+ (50% chance to hit before Enlarged).3) Both Fighters have a Strength of 16 and have gotten to BAB 11+ (60% chance to hit before Enlarged).4) Both Fighters have a Strength of 16 and have gotten to BAB 16+ (70% chance to hit before Enlarged).Round 1 Case 1:F1 averages 3 hitsF2 averages 3.75 hitsRound 2 Case 1:F1 averages 6 hitsF2 averages 7.5 hitsRound 3 Case 1:F1 averages 9 hitsF2 averages 11.25 hitsRound 4 Case 1:F1 averages 12 hitsF2 averages 15 hitsSince F2 averages more average damage per round, F1 never catches up.Round 1 Case 2:F1 averages 5.5 hitsF2 averages 7.125 hitsRound 2 Case 2:F1 averages 11 hitsF2 averages 14.5 hitsRound 3 Case 2:F1 averages 16.5 hitsF2 averages 21.375 hitsRound 4 Case 2:F1 averages 22 hitsF2 averages 28.5 hitsRound 1 Case 3 (note: F1s third attack only has a 5% chance to hit, natural 20):F1 averages 8 hitsF2 averages 12.375 hitsRound 2 Case 3:F1 averages 16 hitsF2 averages 24.75 hitsRound 3 Case 3:F1 averages 24 hitsF2 averages 37.125 hitsRound 4 Case 3:F1 averages 32 hitsF2 averages 49.5 hitsRound 1 Case 4 (note: F1s fourth attack only has a 5% chance to hit, natural 20)F1 averages 11 hitsF2 averages 12.75 hitsRound 2 Case 4:F1 averages 22 hitsF2 averages 25.5 hitsRound 3 Case 4:F1 averages 33 hitsF2 averages 38.25 hitsRound 4 Case 4:F1 averages 44 hitsF2 averages 51 hitsF1 might average 2.5 more points of damage per successful hit, but F2 hits 20% of the time when F1 does not. In every case above here, F2 averaged more damage per round than F1. That's huge and it becomes even more huge with full round attacks.And criticals do not change the picture too much since F1 does slightly more damage per critical, but F2 hits on the criticals a lot more often (just like the normal damage).Yes in melee, the enlarged character has an advantage. But, in ranged combat, he is at a disadvantage.Let's not assume that his opponents are stupid enough to just walk into that melee advantage. Typically, he will have to come to his opponents and not the other way around in which case, they just take a 5 foot step in and full round attack him with his AC lowered by 2.F1 cannot really control the combat. His opponents should pepper him with arrows and/or wait for him to commit to melee. Any opponent that F1 attempts to melee with will typically only lose at most that first attack. After that, it is mostly a slugfest with F1 doing more average damage when he hits and his opponents hitting more often.Sure, monsters may not have as many ranged attacks, but many monsters are just as large or larger than F1, or they have other combat advantages (like Rend).All in all, the reach/AC penalty is mostly a wash and not the uber advantage people think it is without doing the math.Well, it's kind of hard to hide the fact that F1s initiative comes up in the game and he doesn't do anything, so the player of F2 decides "oh well, he is out of charge range, so I pull out my bow and shoot".Enlarge is a tactic. Just like any other tactic, you react to it appropriately. That does not mean that the tactic is so uber that you cannot react adequately to it.</blockquote>

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