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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ridley's Cohort" data-source="post: 3419770" data-attributes="member: 545">I have seen a single low level spell (Grease) neuter a Cloud Giant by causing him to drop his weapon just as he waded into the thick of combat.  So I, for one, would not get my panties in a bunch over the fact that such things can and do happen.I do not find the likelihood that once or twice in your PC's adventuring career an encounter that "should" have been very difficult happens to be quite easy due to a specific low level spell.  Such events happen.  With a Wizard it might be Grease, Minor Image, Charm Person, and at higher levels a Web or a lucky Glitterdust that does the deed.  For the Druid we have Entangle.There is a more general philosophical question of whether a spell that has significant limitations on when it can be used should (or should not) be potentially more effective than other spells under those special conditions.The Druid spell list suffers from numerous spells that are generally too ineffective to prepare -- they are powerful in very limited and rare scenarios.  To make them "average" in power makes them outright pathetic in most campaigns.As I have already stated in both this thread and previous similar threads, I can easily imagine that Entangle as written would be a problem spell in some specific campaigns.  I am extremely skeptical whether this is a common or even an uncommon issue.  But if you campaign really has lots and lots of wilderness encounters, then by all means do amend the spell.As for Sleep vs. Entangle...The last few times I fought giants, Sleep would have had more value than Entangle.  Sleep at least could theorectically be used against the occasionally orc/ogre servant that was unfortunate enough to show up, even if that would have been silly to bother doing so.  Entangle would have had precisely zero value in the stone or ice caves.The last few times my druid was wishing he had some kind of AoE spell handy, he was fighting 33 goblins on their home turf.  I did not have trouble identifying potential targets for Sleep.  Once again, Entangle would have had precisely zero value.As for the 8 Hill Giants, it strikes me as a more than a little contrived as written.  If the point of this scenario is that Entangle can potentially be very effective, then I will concede that point.  If the point of the scenario is how amazingly powerful a low level spell is in high-level encounters, then one should play the creatures as if they were a high-level encounter with the modicum of awareness of how vulnerable they are to AoE spells.  Giants have a pretty good movement rate and a pretty good ranged attack, so there is no great incentive to bunch up.  Even with that impressive AoE, I would be pleasantly surprised to be able to catch more 4 of 8 in Entangle.</blockquote>

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