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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 2387769" data-attributes="member: 12037">With a 40' radius, if you center it in the middle of three characters all 30 feet away from each other, none of them will be able to get out in one round unless they have a movement of higher than 30 normally. And they have to either succeed the saving throw or make a DC 20 Strength check. Otherwise, they arn't moving at all. A 40' radius is huge.I don't see that as any kind of balaincing factor for spells. Because druids get it, then it can be more powerful? Nope.I don't see it as overwhelmingly good against a CR 7 creature. I hope it isn't!I doubt they're carring many boulders, though... maybe two rounds worth? Note that even a Hill Giant, if the effect is centered on him, can't escape in one round. Also note that a Hill Giant doesn't even have a 50/50 chance to make the Strength check. At this level, however, fly with protection from arrows is far more effective.Grease: Save or fall (prone penalties). If you succeed make a DC 10 balance check or you can't move (another save or miss check by 5 or fall). In either case you still have a standard action remaining. A prone character can crawl out of the area of effect as a full round action (moving 5').Entangle: Save or be entangled (entangled penalties). If you succeed you can move at half movement to leave the area. If you fail, you must make a DC 20 Str/EE check to move. At the end of the round, using a full round action. If you don't get out, make another save.They're very similar actually. Both have an immediate save or you suffer penalties. Both have a skill check following a successful save, and a penalty associated with a failed check. Entangle is more powerful because it will come into play less often (which I don't see as a compelling balancing factor).Both use Reflex saves, so we'll just ignore them.Considering grease, your average 3rd level Fighter has 12 Dex and probably a -5 penalty to balance probably, so they have to get a 14 or better or he can't move that turn. He can try again with his Standard or use the Standard for something else. Because it is only 10'x10', one success and he's out. Getting up if he falls, he will most likely provoke an AoO from standing. Also while on the ground, he is more vulnerable.In entangle's case, with a 16 Str, they have a +3 to Str checks and need a 17 or better to move for the duration of the spell. Odds are, he'll have to make another save and maybe another Str check next round even if he was successful. While entangled, the enemy can ignore him and go after weaker party members. Not so bad for him, bad for everyone else.A wizard caught with grease will have an average of 12 Dex, so on a roll of 9 or higher they'll make the check for grease. If they fall, they probably weren't near combat anyway, so they might just stay laying on the ground to get the bonus to AC against ranged combatants. If someone makes it over to them, they're in trouble, though.Average 3rd level Wizard has a 10 Str and has to roll a 20 to spend a full round action to move 15 feet and possibly still be in the effect of the spell... This isn't worth it. No caster is going to try to move out. He'll cast spells out of it, each requiring a Concentration check of 15+spell level (as an aside another reason SF(conjuration) is better than Combat Casting), and all his ranged touch attacks suffer a -4 penalty to attack. The concentration checks arn't so bad, but at this level, he might fail a few. Then he waits several minutes after the battle to leave the area of effect.Entangle seems more powerful to me.</blockquote>

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