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Message: <blockquote data-quote="satori01" data-source="post: 4802573" data-attributes="member: 7859">There is a huge difference between a saving throw to avoid being pushed/slid off a cliff vs a saving throw being allowed to avoid be pushed into a player or monster created zone.A saving throw for terrain, is intended to allow terrain to pose a threat, without necessarily allowing for certain powers, classes, monsters to perpetrate the instant death.  Thunderwave, Invokers, Shield based Fighters, and Bull Rushes are still extremely valuable tactics on the edge of the cliff, but are not insta kills w/ Saving Throws.Player created effects are meant to be damaging.  For most encounters a Wall of Fire is going to be insta death only for Minions, which is appropriate.  Other monsters have large Hit Point reserves so that players can feel validated by creating effects, and making attacks that hurt them.I know as a player I would retrain or ask to be able to switch a power that the DM suddenly was allowing a Saving Throw to avoid.</blockquote>