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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shardstone" data-source="post: 8705169" data-attributes="member: 6807784">I really can't understand this spells argument.Vecna has spells. Vecna has a special rule that says he can have any other spell or magical effect in the game. You have a simple structure (at will, 3/day, 2/day, 1/day) for putting the spells up there. You can easily just say "casts this spell at 7th" level. It just feels like the only way to actually take this no spells argument seriously is to just assume that a DM should never under any circumstances have to change a statblock, and that's absurd for a game like D&D.Should a list of thematic possible spells have been included? Yes, and that's something I ask for. But..spells aren't gone. And there were already magical effects in the game that didn't use spells that originate from monsters. How does a vampire change shape? How does a dragon breath fire? How does an Elder Brain take over your mind? How does a gith use — oh wait that's spells. Uh, how does a gargoyle become indetectable?All these magic effects in the game don't use spells, and I'm tired of all NPC magic-users having to be coup'd up in spells. A magic-user should be able to use multiple kinds of magic, with things like "Arcane Blast" or "Dread Counterspell" being alternative routes to magical ability beyond cantrips and spells. Another argument then pops up: how come PCs can't do it? Well, how come a PC can't take over your mind without spells via Elder Brain? How come a PC can't reincarnate in Hell after "dying" like a devil? Because most magic is outside the hands of the PCs, and naughty word like Arcane Blast is basically a worse Eldritch Blast, and Dread Counterspell is clearly a Vecna original. And this isn't to say all of your feelings aren't valid. And this isn't to shut down conversation either. Its just, every time I bring up these points, the answers are basically "I don't want to do that!" Well sorry, Bill (made up name, sry if any of you are named Bill!), but if you can be arsed to put in the effort to memorize a 25-item spell list, you can be arsed to add 5-6 spells to your magic-user spellblock. For those of us who aren't tied up in the whole "All magic-users have to use spells and no other form of magic," we finally have a way to run the game without having to add a lot of stuff, and if we want too, we easily can. A lot easier then having to understand the divine, esoteric mathematics behind an archmages 20 prepared spells, why they have each spell, what each spell does, and how each spell interacts with each other and higher casting.</blockquote>

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