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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 5045080" data-attributes="member: 43019">Astral Seal would definitely make a big difference, too, yes. That's one of the most effective at-wills for aiding party attacks.There are quite a number of things wrong with the math, that become more obvious as you get higher level. They're generally less glaring than a lot of problems that afflict various game systems so it's harder to see them and consciously account for them. I mean, the human mind is not prepared to comprehend a +/- 1 modifier over the course of play. It was a lot easier to notice when, say, in the first round half the party died from full hp.One problem is that monsters don't deal enough damage and succumb too easily to certain tactics, while generally getting tougher than there's any need to be. This leads to PCs having an easier and easier time as they get higher in level.The PC FRWs also get out of sync with monster attacks, such that monsters can trivially hit the PCs with non-AC attacks, unless things like penalties to attack and such come in.The PC attack bonuses do actually trend slightly downwards, but only slightly mind. Remember that we're only talking a difference of +2 to attack - you might not even notice the difference in your own game. Even Astral Seal on its own almost effectively gives Expertise to the entire group.Players are also drawn to ways to get other bonuses - Demigod epic destiny being one of the more popular methods for another +1.  Some groups will see problems. Others won't. In some groups it also depends on the length of the combat and type of creatures fought. If you're a level 24 party fighting a lvl 27 Sorrowsworn Dread Wraith, you're looking for party level +19 AC to hit it in melee effectively and party level + 17 for reflex range attacks. A 24th level cleric might have +24 base vs Reflex with a radiant ranged attack (+12 level, +7 stat, +5 enh), but that means he needs a 17 to hit it and turn off its regeneration. Even with -4 to defenses and CA, that just gets it down to an 11 for a 50/50 split. If you added in expertise, that'd make it a 9, which is still a 40% chance of missing. And if any of those things don't happen - CA, either of the two defense reducing powers, etc... then you're back up in double digits. Your paladin from earlier in a similar situation would be only +2 better than the cleric at hitting, so still looking for 15 default, 7 with the best of possible buffs.Look at low level characters for a bit - they're not actually intended to miss that often. That trend repeated at epic is hardly momentous. Your cleric at 1st level with astral seal needs a 7 to hit. The paladin needs a 6. That drops to a 5 and a 4 if the cleric's already hit with astral seal.Seeing those results duplicated at epic is, well, expected. What's not expected is how much survivability increases with level, rather than decreases.</blockquote>

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