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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 5045724" data-attributes="member: 43019">Sadly, the expertise feats are still bad design that all PCs will be assumed to have in any game that allows them at 15th+ level, regardless of whether this particular party with three leaders runs into problems or not. It's anecdotal, not representative of normal play, and if he opened up the expertise feats for his players to take, multiple of them would almost certainly take them. Even in a party designed to load up on hit bonuses and defense penalties already.It would be just as silly to look at an example party with a shaman as its only leader, a fighter defender, and a dwarf barbarian instead of the halfling rogue as its striker. Suddenly one of the characters always needs double digits to hit, the shaman isn't providing attack bonuses or defense penalties, they're much more stacked against AC, etc. They might still be more than tough enough that the DM keeps having to up the level of the challenge, then wonders why the combats take forever to do though.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="keterys, post: 5045724, member: 43019"] Sadly, the expertise feats are still bad design that all PCs will be assumed to have in any game that allows them at 15th+ level, regardless of whether this particular party with three leaders runs into problems or not. It's anecdotal, not representative of normal play, and if he opened up the expertise feats for his players to take, multiple of them would almost certainly take them. Even in a party designed to load up on hit bonuses and defense penalties already. It would be just as silly to look at an example party with a shaman as its only leader, a fighter defender, and a dwarf barbarian instead of the halfling rogue as its striker. Suddenly one of the characters always needs double digits to hit, the shaman isn't providing attack bonuses or defense penalties, they're much more stacked against AC, etc. They might still be more than tough enough that the DM keeps having to up the level of the challenge, then wonders why the combats take forever to do though. [/QUOTE]

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