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<blockquote data-quote="Dragonblade" data-source="post: 1920725" data-attributes="member: 2804"><p>A lot of my views on epic level gaming were influenced by my friend, Rich. He used to post on here under the name of SHARK but hasn't posted in over a year now.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, he had two major reasons for running a campaign world that was scaled higher from the start and that often reached into epic levels.</p><p></p><p>1) He felt that having a typical NPC guard or soldier as level 1 or level 2 Warriors was not realistic or consistent with the knowledge and and abilities such characters should feasibly have. For example, your typical Roman legionnaire for instance is likely to have several ranks in Survival, Knowledge: Roman history, Knowledge: Legion Tactics, Spot, Jump, Climb, etc. They are also likely to have acquired feats through their training such as Alertness, Toughness, Weapon Focus: Gladius, Phalanx Fighting, and so on.</p><p></p><p>Taking all of that into consideration, you average legionnaire probably works out to be around an 8th level Fighter or so. Its just not feasible that such training and skill can be represented in game by some 1st level Warrior. This argument holds true for any fantasy archetype.</p><p></p><p>For example, would a skilled smith really just be a 1st level Expert? No way. According to my 3.0 PHB, the DC to make a long sword is 15. Is an experienced smith working in the king's armory going to ever fail this check? Probably almost never (i.e. only on a roll of 1). This means they need at least 14 ranks in the skill assuming a stat of 12 (the high end of average). To have 14 ranks in Craft: Long Sword requires them to be around level 11.</p><p></p><p>Once he realized that this was the case, rescaling the world came naturally. </p><p></p><p>The notion that most NPCs should all be level 1 Commoners, Experts, or Warriors just doesn't make sense.</p><p></p><p>2) The second factor is fun. Now fun, of course, is a very subjective thing. Some people love low-level gritty games where a +1 sword is a treasured artifact. Me too! I'm playing in a low-magic Iron Kingdoms campaign now and I love it! </p><p></p><p>But I also love high level and high magic worlds as well. Not because I'm a munchkin who loves playing godlike PCs, but because I like options. And to me, high level and high magic are all about giving players options. Sometimes fantastic options, like traveling the planes, or having a dragon mount.</p><p></p><p>And yes, high level DnD is also partially about the kewl stuff. I mean what's the point of there being vorpal weapons or +8 celestial uber armor if you never get to use it. At this point the RPG elite cry out: "Ha! You are simply a munchkin after all!"</p><p></p><p>Well, no. Not really. You see, munchkinism is all about getting stuff for the sake of stuff. Because a munchkin's goal is to figure out how to turn on god mode and win the game. In my world, getting cool gear doesn't help you "win" the game. In my world, +8 celestial uber armor doesn't make you invincible. Trying to take on a squad of the lich king's winter wights by yourself is still suicide. But having armor that allows you to fly, or heal yourself, or turn undead, etc. provides you with options and an element of fantasy that just wouldn't exist in a low-magic game world. That may not work for you, but it works for me.</p><p></p><p>Now some critics might cry: "If such powerful magic is commonplace, it loses its wonder!" There is perhaps a bit of truth that. But, in the long run, I don't think so. I feel that making even low-powered magical items rare only causes players to associate the wonder of magic with items, rather than in the setting or magic itself. This is a bit hard to explain and again this is a matter of personal preference. But I think that magical items should be treated more as props in a grand opera. The mystery and wonder should come from the story and setting, not from the props.</p><p></p><p>Again, many disagree. It really is a matter of personal preference. And ultimately, having fun is all that really matters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dragonblade, post: 1920725, member: 2804"] A lot of my views on epic level gaming were influenced by my friend, Rich. He used to post on here under the name of SHARK but hasn't posted in over a year now. Anyway, he had two major reasons for running a campaign world that was scaled higher from the start and that often reached into epic levels. 1) He felt that having a typical NPC guard or soldier as level 1 or level 2 Warriors was not realistic or consistent with the knowledge and and abilities such characters should feasibly have. For example, your typical Roman legionnaire for instance is likely to have several ranks in Survival, Knowledge: Roman history, Knowledge: Legion Tactics, Spot, Jump, Climb, etc. They are also likely to have acquired feats through their training such as Alertness, Toughness, Weapon Focus: Gladius, Phalanx Fighting, and so on. Taking all of that into consideration, you average legionnaire probably works out to be around an 8th level Fighter or so. Its just not feasible that such training and skill can be represented in game by some 1st level Warrior. This argument holds true for any fantasy archetype. For example, would a skilled smith really just be a 1st level Expert? No way. According to my 3.0 PHB, the DC to make a long sword is 15. Is an experienced smith working in the king's armory going to ever fail this check? Probably almost never (i.e. only on a roll of 1). This means they need at least 14 ranks in the skill assuming a stat of 12 (the high end of average). To have 14 ranks in Craft: Long Sword requires them to be around level 11. Once he realized that this was the case, rescaling the world came naturally. The notion that most NPCs should all be level 1 Commoners, Experts, or Warriors just doesn't make sense. 2) The second factor is fun. Now fun, of course, is a very subjective thing. Some people love low-level gritty games where a +1 sword is a treasured artifact. Me too! I'm playing in a low-magic Iron Kingdoms campaign now and I love it! But I also love high level and high magic worlds as well. Not because I'm a munchkin who loves playing godlike PCs, but because I like options. And to me, high level and high magic are all about giving players options. Sometimes fantastic options, like traveling the planes, or having a dragon mount. And yes, high level DnD is also partially about the kewl stuff. I mean what's the point of there being vorpal weapons or +8 celestial uber armor if you never get to use it. At this point the RPG elite cry out: "Ha! You are simply a munchkin after all!" Well, no. Not really. You see, munchkinism is all about getting stuff for the sake of stuff. Because a munchkin's goal is to figure out how to turn on god mode and win the game. In my world, getting cool gear doesn't help you "win" the game. In my world, +8 celestial uber armor doesn't make you invincible. Trying to take on a squad of the lich king's winter wights by yourself is still suicide. But having armor that allows you to fly, or heal yourself, or turn undead, etc. provides you with options and an element of fantasy that just wouldn't exist in a low-magic game world. That may not work for you, but it works for me. Now some critics might cry: "If such powerful magic is commonplace, it loses its wonder!" There is perhaps a bit of truth that. But, in the long run, I don't think so. I feel that making even low-powered magical items rare only causes players to associate the wonder of magic with items, rather than in the setting or magic itself. This is a bit hard to explain and again this is a matter of personal preference. But I think that magical items should be treated more as props in a grand opera. The mystery and wonder should come from the story and setting, not from the props. Again, many disagree. It really is a matter of personal preference. And ultimately, having fun is all that really matters. [/QUOTE]
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