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Message: <blockquote data-quote="toberane" data-source="post: 335420" data-attributes="member: 4968">Oh, this is a fun debate. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think the way we see differently is that you are considering the abilities only granted by a single class, and I am talking about the overall character abilities.  Saying that a wizard 14 is more powerful than a wizard 7/fighter 7 just because the wizard is a better spellcaster is almost the same ans saying that the wizard is better than a fighter 14 because he is a better spellcaster.  Yes, the individual skills for the levels are not a strong, but the multiclassed character got other skills and benefits in return.To again reference my rogue, I may have missed out on some skill points and a couple of dice of sneak attack damage and a special ability, and that would be a real shame IF I WAS PLAYING A STRAIGHT ROGUE.  But, I'm not playing a straight rogue, and I never wanted to.  I wanted to play a swashbuckler, and rogues are very well suited to this, particularly with some fighter-type classes thrown in.  I wasn't using multiclassing to min/max (though as a D&D veteran for 20+ years, I of course did everything to make my character as strong as possible wiithin the character personality I had created).  In exchange for losing some skill points, a rogue ability, and a couple of dice of sneak attack damage, I got the equivalent of 5 feats I wouldn't have hd before (ambidexterity, track, two-weapon fighting, and two bonus fighter feats) plus the ranger bonuses for having a special enemy.  I also got a few points of BAB I wouldn't have gotten, which gives me one more attack per round that I would have had if I had only gone straight rogue.I think the reason I like multiclassing is it allows you to customize your characters the way you want to play them.  If you see your character as a wizard and your primary goal is to increase your magical powers, then it would be stupid to multiclass.  If you do multiclass, then you should look at the strengths you got from your other class and use them rather than complaining about how the other wizards have more spells than you.Also, to clarify the sneak attacking all the time thing, it isn't that hard.  You take improved initiative so that you catch your foes flat-footed, you make sure that your fighters leave openings for you to flank your enemies, and you pump up your tumble skill so that you can tumble through opponent's squares without getting attacks of opportunity and get into flanking positions more easily.  And then, if you are lucky like me, you find a ring of blinking at some time, which allows you to attack as if you were an invisible creature.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  And since he is a 21st level character, he has enough feats, skills, and items that he is very versatile in his tactics, both in combat and in role-playing situations.If having three less spell levels than other characters is that important to you, then you shouldn't have multiclassed in the first place.  A Wizard 7/Fighter 7 is a pretty decent fighter as well, particularly with the 5 bonus fighter feats he will have taken by that time.  A smart character would use the wizard magic to enhance his fighter abilities, and I think you'd have a pretty even fight putting him up against either a wizard 14 or a fighter 14.  As I said, when you speak of this 7/7 character, I only hear you talking about the wizard levels he lost, and not the BAB, HP, and Feats he gained from being a fighter.My reason for bringing this up was merely to point out that there is a difference in combat abilities between a fighter 1 and a wizard 20/fighter 1. I look at it this way... it is like taking a martial art.  If you get your black belt in one art form, them move on to even a significantly different art form, do you think you will progress as slowly as the beginners.  You may even start at a higher belt level simply based on your current level of skill and experience.Wizards, by this time, have a LOT of combat experience.  They have learned to dodge blows, and possibly even gained some skill at handling their weapons when backed into a corner.  I keep seeing people saying "If you follow the rules the way they are written, do it the easy way.  First, get to 20th level as a wizard, and then take a level of fighter to get the epic bonus feats."  Wizard getting to 20th level does not equal easy.  That's like saying "Heres how to become a millionaire and never pay taxes.  First, get a million dollars..." (Gold star to anyone who can tell me where that quote came from).  OK, I'll agree with you on this one.  But it has been pointed out that one of the reasons that the epic feats should be allowed is because they are the only special ability that the fighter gets.  The character is now and EPIC character (21st overall character level = epic character) so that should unlock the epic feats.  Is it unfair?  I don't know.  I can see how it might be, and I can see how it might not.  Fair or not, I don't really see that it is unbalncing to the game.</blockquote>

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