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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 306789" data-attributes="member: 4134">The problem here is that before ELH came out, you coulnd't have a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or highter, so noone bothered to make a spell for that. I'd say, there were no non-epic means to improve a weapon beyond +5 before, and there shouldn't be now. A +6 weapon would be an epic weapon, so you could only achieve that by epic means. Otherwise you just had to invent a 9th-level spell (or so) and have 18th-level parties running around with +6 weapons.I would introduce a house rule: if you have greater magic weapon and use enhance spell on it, you can have up to +10 (normally enhance spell only works with damage spells), or +15 with two enhances, and so on. This way you couldn't achieve that before you were epic, but you still wouldn't need an epic spell (which involves a lot of ad hoc and high DC's) Hm... I like that. Since there's no seed in ELH that can grant an enhancement bonus to weapons or armors (and for other things, as well: I tried to create an epic flame strike, and had to use the heal seed in order to emulate the "half damage divine" effect) you need to make ad hoc decisions and these seem adequate.You could use some factors to lower the dc a bit: Increase the casting time or decrease the duration (ad hoc -2 for half duration - quite the opposite of +2 for double duration). Unlike with weapon bonuses, I don't mind having non-epic effects increase your ability scores by more than 6, as it is already possible.- Tensers transformation gives you +2d4 STR and DEX, being possibly +8- Bite of the werebear increases STR by 16- An empovered Bull's Strength can give you +7 bonus (the same goes for all the other 2nd-level spells wich improve an ability score, of course). If you're allowed to use the same metamagic feat more than once (I'm not entirely sure if this is allowed officially, since the epic feat enhance spell for the first time notes that it can be taken more than once and that it's effects stack. Could be that you can apply every feat only once...) you could empower those spells three times, for a possible +15.- Divine Power gives you STR 18, which could be a lot if you have low STR (10 is not that far off for a cleric)- The greater frenzy class feature gives a +10 frenzy bonus to strength, and this is usually accompanied by +4 from the barbarian rage.- The feat of strength (strenght domain special power) gives you a STR bonus equal to your cleric level. At 20th level, this would be +20Although it is true that most of those things are limited in a way (either they are personal or have a very short duration), it is possible, while there's no way (I know of) to make your weapon a +6 weapon or greater weapon, even for a single attack! Also, an enhancement bonus to the weapon is more critical than the bonus to an ability score, since it makes you bypass DR.I would not allow a "Even Greater Magic Weapon" spell (with bonuses above +5) of level 9th or lower in my campaign, but I would have nothing against Greater Bull's Strenght (or Cat's Grace, Endurance, Eagle's Splendor, Fox' Cunning or Owl's Wisdom), with 2d4 instead of 1d4+1, as a 6th-level spell or so. Or 2d6 at 9th level.</blockquote>

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