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Epic Level 1?!
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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8630031" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>It's really odd how hyper-focused people are on pure numbers, as if nothing else matters in the game. But that could be me. I'm far more interested in the fiction of the game world more than the numbers that are simply abstractions of the game world.</p><p></p><p>So there are "on-level threats". Okay.</p><p></p><p>And there are "below-level threats". Okay.</p><p></p><p>And there is an incentive to face on-level threats more often than below-level threats. Okay. </p><p></p><p>The point is that the on-level threats are always advancing...almost exactly as the PCs are. That's the treadmill. The bigger numbers of the PCs are matched by the bigger numbers of the monsters. Hence it's a treadmill. You numbers go up, their numbers go up. The only difference is what you call the on-level threats. They go from goblin to orc to hobgoblin to ogre to giant...but they're all...mysteriously...about the same difficulty. The numbers involved are just inflated when you compare the goblins to the giants.</p><p></p><p>But, the important part to remember is that each, within their own stories, still face obstacles that are either just at the level of their competence or obstacles that are just beyond their level of competence...and the story is about them overcoming those obstacles regardless. Rising to meet the challenge as it were. You basically never see House tackling a JD and Turk level problem unless it's part of a cold open or a passing bit of dialogue...because it's beneath them. And you certainly wouldn't have Doctor Strange handling a House or JD and Turk problem. Like you wouldn't have a 20th-level party facing off against a few goblins in D&D...it just isn't something worth busting out the full combat rules for. It's a bit of dialogue from the DM at best. </p><p></p><p>Part of the trick is understanding that you don't need hard numbers to represent that. The DM can simply say "these monsters are beneath your notice" and not have anyone bother with dice.</p><p></p><p>More that they'll constantly push for facing on-level threats, because that's where the incentives are...so it's still a treadmill.</p><p></p><p>And the on-level threats have equally impressive abilities they can use...just like the PCs have. </p><p></p><p>Yeah. That's true. Doesn't change what I said in any significant way though. You don't need hard numbers to accomplish the same thing. "You are so beyond this monster that you can just describe killing them by the dozen" is far more elegant than dozens of pages of pointless stats. Likewise, "this monster is so beyond you that it can simply kill you by the dozen...run" is far more elegant than dozens of pages of pointless stats.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8630031, member: 86653"] It's really odd how hyper-focused people are on pure numbers, as if nothing else matters in the game. But that could be me. I'm far more interested in the fiction of the game world more than the numbers that are simply abstractions of the game world. So there are "on-level threats". Okay. And there are "below-level threats". Okay. And there is an incentive to face on-level threats more often than below-level threats. Okay. The point is that the on-level threats are always advancing...almost exactly as the PCs are. That's the treadmill. The bigger numbers of the PCs are matched by the bigger numbers of the monsters. Hence it's a treadmill. You numbers go up, their numbers go up. The only difference is what you call the on-level threats. They go from goblin to orc to hobgoblin to ogre to giant...but they're all...mysteriously...about the same difficulty. The numbers involved are just inflated when you compare the goblins to the giants. But, the important part to remember is that each, within their own stories, still face obstacles that are either just at the level of their competence or obstacles that are just beyond their level of competence...and the story is about them overcoming those obstacles regardless. Rising to meet the challenge as it were. You basically never see House tackling a JD and Turk level problem unless it's part of a cold open or a passing bit of dialogue...because it's beneath them. And you certainly wouldn't have Doctor Strange handling a House or JD and Turk problem. Like you wouldn't have a 20th-level party facing off against a few goblins in D&D...it just isn't something worth busting out the full combat rules for. It's a bit of dialogue from the DM at best. Part of the trick is understanding that you don't need hard numbers to represent that. The DM can simply say "these monsters are beneath your notice" and not have anyone bother with dice. More that they'll constantly push for facing on-level threats, because that's where the incentives are...so it's still a treadmill. And the on-level threats have equally impressive abilities they can use...just like the PCs have. Yeah. That's true. Doesn't change what I said in any significant way though. You don't need hard numbers to accomplish the same thing. "You are so beyond this monster that you can just describe killing them by the dozen" is far more elegant than dozens of pages of pointless stats. Likewise, "this monster is so beyond you that it can simply kill you by the dozen...run" is far more elegant than dozens of pages of pointless stats. [/QUOTE]
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