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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 8630262" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>Sure, if you only look at the numbers and then dismiss everything else as fictional positioning, then your argument for a treadmill is quite strong. Of course, most arguments supported by cherry picked evidence, where any evidence contrary to your argument is dismissed as insignificant, tend to be quite strong. So no surprise there.</p><p></p><p>If you ignore "fictional positioning", then you're on a treadmill irrespective of whether the numbers are static or they improve. The only way to get off the treadmill would be for the numbers to improve only for the PCs. However, I doubt that would make for an enjoyable game (20th level characters who have been fighting CR1 monsters their entire career). Or for high level play to not resemble low level play at all (domain management). Whereby you essentially aren't even playing the same game anymore (and have therefore transitioned to a new "treadmill").</p><p></p><p>A treadmill is generally considered a bad thing. However, I don't agree that most people seeing their character's numbers improve consider that a bad thing. I don't think that it detracts from the game.</p><p></p><p>If the designers use bigger numbers as a crutch to avoid granting interesting abilities, that would be a bad thing, but I think that 5e finds a fair balance between new capabilities and bigger numbers.</p><p></p><p>Granted, this is not spread evenly between classes, with caster classes getting a significantly greater portion thereof. I strongly believe that martials would significantly benefit from more cool features.</p><p></p><p>IMO, fictional positioning is what makes RPGs what they are. An argument claiming that a game is a treadmill that does not take into account fictional positioning is not useful (or accurate). Without fictional positioning, pretty much every game is a treadmill.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 8630262, member: 53980"] Sure, if you only look at the numbers and then dismiss everything else as fictional positioning, then your argument for a treadmill is quite strong. Of course, most arguments supported by cherry picked evidence, where any evidence contrary to your argument is dismissed as insignificant, tend to be quite strong. So no surprise there. If you ignore "fictional positioning", then you're on a treadmill irrespective of whether the numbers are static or they improve. The only way to get off the treadmill would be for the numbers to improve only for the PCs. However, I doubt that would make for an enjoyable game (20th level characters who have been fighting CR1 monsters their entire career). Or for high level play to not resemble low level play at all (domain management). Whereby you essentially aren't even playing the same game anymore (and have therefore transitioned to a new "treadmill"). A treadmill is generally considered a bad thing. However, I don't agree that most people seeing their character's numbers improve consider that a bad thing. I don't think that it detracts from the game. If the designers use bigger numbers as a crutch to avoid granting interesting abilities, that would be a bad thing, but I think that 5e finds a fair balance between new capabilities and bigger numbers. Granted, this is not spread evenly between classes, with caster classes getting a significantly greater portion thereof. I strongly believe that martials would significantly benefit from more cool features. IMO, fictional positioning is what makes RPGs what they are. An argument claiming that a game is a treadmill that does not take into account fictional positioning is not useful (or accurate). Without fictional positioning, pretty much every game is a treadmill. [/QUOTE]
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