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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 381430" data-attributes="member: 1757">Hmm; it seems that we have a similar understanding of the issues involved, but maybe just differ regarding the ultimate impact of those issues, which is fine. As you said, YMMV... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Well, attribute boosts DO equate to DC increases, and I actually think the potential for greater and greater attribute boosts (through more-empowered stat boost spells, better items, and wishes) goes UP, not down, as characters increase in level. Also, a monk's saves are only going up by 1 point every two levels across the board. A spellcaster can probably keep reasonable pace with this increase on a level-by-level basis.Finally, I think that spellcasters just have to work smarter, not harder, to take down the opposition at epic levels. The fact is, EVERY class has to do this. Fighters actually face the toughest strategic dilemma, since they are going to have a hard time even acting at all in combat, much less reaching the opposition in time to deliver a successful attack. What casters can do is to target weak saves, use no-save spells whenever possible, and boost their casting attributes through the roof; pretty much what they've been doing at non-epic levels. Give that monk a meteor swarm followed up by a power word kill and see how he likes this. Maze that advancing legendary dreadnought. Atropals and demiliches? Those are for your blinding-speeded charging tank fighter buddy protected by an anti-magic field. Wizards' and sorcs' big advantage at epic levels is that they can buff their buddies with the lower-level spells and nastify the opposition in hundreds of creative ways with the high-level spells. To be honest, I think that using the FR rules is a nice way of allowing wizards to make the choice of specializing as save-DC monkeys, but they don't really need to, and can function just fine using the core rules.In any case, wolff, I certainly agree with you that druids are THE big winners at epic levels. Mighty mighty mighty.</blockquote>

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