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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Epic Level Encounter Design
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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 6052214" data-attributes="member: 43019"><p>A lot of it really depends on the optimization level of the group. There's a pretty big difference, for example, between these characters -</p><p></p><p>Striker:</p><p>Warlock: Eldritch Blasts most rounds for ~40 damage (2d10 + 3d8 + 8 stat + 5 enh + 3 feat)</p><p>Genasi Ranger: Twin Strikes plus an extra attack (minor, immediate) almost every round for about 170 (2d10 + 5 enh + 5 firewind + 5 shard + 4 item + 4 fire + 4 lightning + 5 prime punished called shot + 3d8 promise of storm, with crits spawning a free attack)</p><p></p><p>Leader:</p><p>Pacifist Cleric: Nullifies the damage of one monster every round.</p><p>Tactical Warlord: Gives +9 Initiative and uses Hail of Steel or Death from Two Sides to make a monster die every round.</p><p></p><p>Defender:</p><p>Cavalier: Subpar damage to adjacent enemies that attack my allies, as long as those enemies don't teleport, forced move, or stop OAs (daze, stun, etc)</p><p>Sigil Carver Swordmage: Nullifies two monsters worth of damage every round.</p><p></p><p>Controller:</p><p>Hunter: Okay damage while applying fairly negligible soft control to one guy.</p><p>Invoker: Dazing and Stunning the entire encounter.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, my experience is that most people are in between those two ranges, so level + 1 to level + 2 actually still work just fine for moderate encounters, and level + 3 or level + 4 can still threaten a TPK. As long as you update monsters for new design standards and are fairly aggressive about using your options, setting up synergies, etc.</p><p></p><p>In particular, I'd advise against adding high defense and hit point enemies willy nilly, cause you're just inviting grind _unless you have optimized strikers_. For example, if the group has a swordmage, cleric, warlock, wizard don't expect much damage out of any of those; even as they're probably able to mitigate and heal a ton. Another group might be an artificer, barbarian, ranger, fighter and obliterate enemies, but have very little ability to heal.</p><p></p><p>Do make the PCs attack each other and themselves. It tends to auto-scale for the level of optimization, and it's often hilarious.</p><p></p><p>For what it's worth, I run and play epic all the time, and I've been involved in all of the epic adventures for LFR except for 3-1. So I'd be happy to answer more specific questions, if you have them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="keterys, post: 6052214, member: 43019"] A lot of it really depends on the optimization level of the group. There's a pretty big difference, for example, between these characters - Striker: Warlock: Eldritch Blasts most rounds for ~40 damage (2d10 + 3d8 + 8 stat + 5 enh + 3 feat) Genasi Ranger: Twin Strikes plus an extra attack (minor, immediate) almost every round for about 170 (2d10 + 5 enh + 5 firewind + 5 shard + 4 item + 4 fire + 4 lightning + 5 prime punished called shot + 3d8 promise of storm, with crits spawning a free attack) Leader: Pacifist Cleric: Nullifies the damage of one monster every round. Tactical Warlord: Gives +9 Initiative and uses Hail of Steel or Death from Two Sides to make a monster die every round. Defender: Cavalier: Subpar damage to adjacent enemies that attack my allies, as long as those enemies don't teleport, forced move, or stop OAs (daze, stun, etc) Sigil Carver Swordmage: Nullifies two monsters worth of damage every round. Controller: Hunter: Okay damage while applying fairly negligible soft control to one guy. Invoker: Dazing and Stunning the entire encounter. Anyhow, my experience is that most people are in between those two ranges, so level + 1 to level + 2 actually still work just fine for moderate encounters, and level + 3 or level + 4 can still threaten a TPK. As long as you update monsters for new design standards and are fairly aggressive about using your options, setting up synergies, etc. In particular, I'd advise against adding high defense and hit point enemies willy nilly, cause you're just inviting grind _unless you have optimized strikers_. For example, if the group has a swordmage, cleric, warlock, wizard don't expect much damage out of any of those; even as they're probably able to mitigate and heal a ton. Another group might be an artificer, barbarian, ranger, fighter and obliterate enemies, but have very little ability to heal. Do make the PCs attack each other and themselves. It tends to auto-scale for the level of optimization, and it's often hilarious. For what it's worth, I run and play epic all the time, and I've been involved in all of the epic adventures for LFR except for 3-1. So I'd be happy to answer more specific questions, if you have them. [/QUOTE]
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