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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mouseferatu" data-source="post: 258992" data-attributes="member: 1288">Hmm.  Interesting...I never advocated DM hand-holding or baby steps, and I never denied that the book would have to focus largely on the numbers.  Let's see if I can make my problems clearer--and I'll admit straight up that I may not be able to.And epic level game is more than just higher numbers with the same style.  You're dealing with characters who can do things that are simply impossible (barring magic, of course) at lower levels.  Walking on clouds?  Swimming up waterfalls?  Shooting arrows to the horizon?  We've gone from Tolkien, Dragonlance, the Belgariad, and Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser to Princess Mononoke, Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon, Gilgamesh, and Final Fantasy.  This isn't a bad thing, unless you don't like that sort of fantasy, in which case epic gaming probably isn't for you.  But denying the difference exists is, I feel, short-sighted.The D&D core rules are designed around adventure in a "standard" fantasy game.  The rules and the feel reflect that.  The rules of Epic Level reflect a more "mythic" game, but the feel doesn't.  The feel hasn't changed.I don't believe the DMG is as "soulless" as the ELH.  When I read through it, I get a feel for what the authors are talking about, I get an image of what their vision of a D&D campaign is.  I may not agree with it, but I get it.  Reading through the ELH, I didn't get that.  All I got were numbers.Primarily, my objections have to do with chapter six (I think).  Surely they could have done better than given us dozens of pages of organizations and a planar city.  This is where the toolbox approach would have worked best, and where it was completely abandoned in favor of examples that I can't imagine most people ever using.(I may be wrong about "most people," of course, but that's how I see it.)I'm not asking for setting info.  I'm not asking for them to decide how my (or your) campaign should operate.  I'm asking for tips and advice and suggestions on creating an environment and plots for a specific type of game that most of us have rarely, if ever, run.Bottom line, the book didn't feel complete to me.  It seemed lacking, and "soulless," while perhaps not particularly illuminating, is still the best word I can come up with.  It's not by any means a bad book.  What it does, it does well.  But at the end of the day, I have less interest in running an epic game having read the book than I did before I bought it.  And that, to me, means that something went wrong.</blockquote>

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