Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
[EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK] I'm scared
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kibo" data-source="post: 260722" data-attributes="member: 5451"><p><strong>Re: The Epic Lamentations of Mouseferatu</strong></p><p></p><p>You specifically said, Raistalin, and Sauron cannot be player characters. Sauron wouldn't be a particularly interesting one, so I might even be inclined to give you that, except for the fact that I allow for the possiblity someone might be able to do what I don't concieve. Raistlin however, could clearly be a brilliant character, and was. The fact that some of his feats don't fit neatly into some rule book are beside the point. The published rules are a guideline not a coloring book. </p><p></p><p>The ELC just more readily facilitates the integration of other literary ideas into the role-playing game. It just saves the DM the time of having to hammer something out. Making it even easier to play the novel, or play a new story worthy of being one. You're of the opinion, that these fantasy concepts from literature ruin adventures. Maybe what you think, but don't say, is they take the game out of role-playing game, which would be as silly as the things you've said.</p><p></p><p>It's not even worthwhile to return to your assertion that hit points and ledgendary feats with ranged attacks are totally incompatible, particularly if there isn't even a hit location system. That just boils down, to "Describing combat on the fly is hard, it's much easier to throw out numbers." Fair enough. But you not wishing to do so, doesn't make it impossible. And epic feats, such as slaying an enemy with a single arrow, not through magical device, but supreme skill, are cool, can be *quite* dramatic, and, in the right setting, wholly appropriate. The rewards for a life well played shouldn't just fit into Ye Old Vault of Accumulated Magic in the basement of your players' keep guarded by proper amount and kinds of henchment as presecribed by their levels.</p><p></p><p>As to the how's. If you can picture it being cool in your campaign, experiment with it a little, and take it. If the players have something they think will be cool, but you have misgivings, have them convince you. If they get you to the point where you can take it or leave it, take it, and experiment. Naturally, the ELC for Mouseferatu, would require a bit more research on their part, and probably wouldn't sell very well. <--- This is hyperbole, do not be alarmed! At some point you do have to make some decisions about what you think is useful according to what you value. They just saved you a lot of time but distilling a library's worth of fantasy, mythology, and legend into a single book, and tried to provide a little bit of balance for garnish. That's pretty damn convienent. As to what the stories should be like, well to each there own. But on an epic level, as in ELC, that pretty well puts them the save the world or die catagory. How many times they can do this, well that depends how big your "world" is and how fantastic is your campaign. It's as fantastic as say ancient Greek myths where every city had a patron god, and a couple of demi-gods wandering around opening cans of whoop-a$$ on everything? Well you can do quite a lot of that then. If it's a less fantastic setting, you might get to save the world two or three times, once from the other most powerful person, once from another most powerful person no one knew about, and once from a or the Gods. But even that's starting to get kinda campy. If you go for stuff like planescape there's almost no limit. You could probably get away with episodic epic adventures that perhaps were loosly connected to a super-epic adventure for a campaign. In perhaps a more dramatic, more sinister comic book fashion. But that's just off the top of my head, and not what I have in mind to do.</p><p></p><p>You've said quite a bit about your campaigns. Your NPC's can have powers like Sauron, or Raistalin, your PC's can't, period. Nor can the PC's do fantastic feats like slaying a powerful beast with a single arrow, without the aid of a plot device like an arrow of X slaying. All this because you like a sense of reality with your high adventure involving mythological beasts and magic. Fair enough. But that does tell me a lot. It tells me that your's isn't a world with characters, it's a game with sides. I like consistancy, and continuity. The sense that there are certain truths all other things are derived from. Then I trust the NPC's I've created will have motivations that engage the players, and I trust the players to do what players do, and finally when all is said and done, a great story will seem to have written itself, no thanks to me. And that is a most spectacular feeling. (It's kind of like that feeling of epiphany, that same buzz, maybe a little more subdued, but this feeling is readily shared with others who are on exactly the same page with you.)</p><p></p><p>Oh, about opinions. If you don't wish to have yours interpreted, keep it to yourself. Hey, look at the bright side, maybe you're just so brilliant that what I consider foolish or non-sequitor arguments are extremely astute insights that are missing what you consider obvious intermediate steps. Of course I see no reason why anything that exists in literature, or movie, or whatever can't exist in a role-playing game.</p><p></p><p>Have A Nice Day.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kibo, post: 260722, member: 5451"] [b]Re: The Epic Lamentations of Mouseferatu[/b] You specifically said, Raistalin, and Sauron cannot be player characters. Sauron wouldn't be a particularly interesting one, so I might even be inclined to give you that, except for the fact that I allow for the possiblity someone might be able to do what I don't concieve. Raistlin however, could clearly be a brilliant character, and was. The fact that some of his feats don't fit neatly into some rule book are beside the point. The published rules are a guideline not a coloring book. The ELC just more readily facilitates the integration of other literary ideas into the role-playing game. It just saves the DM the time of having to hammer something out. Making it even easier to play the novel, or play a new story worthy of being one. You're of the opinion, that these fantasy concepts from literature ruin adventures. Maybe what you think, but don't say, is they take the game out of role-playing game, which would be as silly as the things you've said. It's not even worthwhile to return to your assertion that hit points and ledgendary feats with ranged attacks are totally incompatible, particularly if there isn't even a hit location system. That just boils down, to "Describing combat on the fly is hard, it's much easier to throw out numbers." Fair enough. But you not wishing to do so, doesn't make it impossible. And epic feats, such as slaying an enemy with a single arrow, not through magical device, but supreme skill, are cool, can be *quite* dramatic, and, in the right setting, wholly appropriate. The rewards for a life well played shouldn't just fit into Ye Old Vault of Accumulated Magic in the basement of your players' keep guarded by proper amount and kinds of henchment as presecribed by their levels. As to the how's. If you can picture it being cool in your campaign, experiment with it a little, and take it. If the players have something they think will be cool, but you have misgivings, have them convince you. If they get you to the point where you can take it or leave it, take it, and experiment. Naturally, the ELC for Mouseferatu, would require a bit more research on their part, and probably wouldn't sell very well. <--- This is hyperbole, do not be alarmed! At some point you do have to make some decisions about what you think is useful according to what you value. They just saved you a lot of time but distilling a library's worth of fantasy, mythology, and legend into a single book, and tried to provide a little bit of balance for garnish. That's pretty damn convienent. As to what the stories should be like, well to each there own. But on an epic level, as in ELC, that pretty well puts them the save the world or die catagory. How many times they can do this, well that depends how big your "world" is and how fantastic is your campaign. It's as fantastic as say ancient Greek myths where every city had a patron god, and a couple of demi-gods wandering around opening cans of whoop-a$$ on everything? Well you can do quite a lot of that then. If it's a less fantastic setting, you might get to save the world two or three times, once from the other most powerful person, once from another most powerful person no one knew about, and once from a or the Gods. But even that's starting to get kinda campy. If you go for stuff like planescape there's almost no limit. You could probably get away with episodic epic adventures that perhaps were loosly connected to a super-epic adventure for a campaign. In perhaps a more dramatic, more sinister comic book fashion. But that's just off the top of my head, and not what I have in mind to do. You've said quite a bit about your campaigns. Your NPC's can have powers like Sauron, or Raistalin, your PC's can't, period. Nor can the PC's do fantastic feats like slaying a powerful beast with a single arrow, without the aid of a plot device like an arrow of X slaying. All this because you like a sense of reality with your high adventure involving mythological beasts and magic. Fair enough. But that does tell me a lot. It tells me that your's isn't a world with characters, it's a game with sides. I like consistancy, and continuity. The sense that there are certain truths all other things are derived from. Then I trust the NPC's I've created will have motivations that engage the players, and I trust the players to do what players do, and finally when all is said and done, a great story will seem to have written itself, no thanks to me. And that is a most spectacular feeling. (It's kind of like that feeling of epiphany, that same buzz, maybe a little more subdued, but this feeling is readily shared with others who are on exactly the same page with you.) Oh, about opinions. If you don't wish to have yours interpreted, keep it to yourself. Hey, look at the bright side, maybe you're just so brilliant that what I consider foolish or non-sequitor arguments are extremely astute insights that are missing what you consider obvious intermediate steps. Of course I see no reason why anything that exists in literature, or movie, or whatever can't exist in a role-playing game. Have A Nice Day. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
[EPIC LEVEL HANDBOOK] I'm scared
Top