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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6128874" data-attributes="member: 1465">I won't comment on the strictly mechanical problems, because I've never actually played D&D at levels labelled "epic".In general I think that the main problem with Epic is to be able to define what it really means...For me, Epic is normally a synonym of "legendary" i.e. events that are potentially able to spawn legends and myths in thousands of years to come, implying that the tales of those events and the deeds of their protagonists will be able to inspire people far down history. Quintessential "epics" are classic Greek tales like Heracles', Jason and the Argonauts, Ulysses' travels etc, but these often fail to be "epic enough" for a game that is already typically set in a high-fantasy setting, they either tend to be pretty regular adventures for low-mid level characters.So D&D needs something "more" than regular epic. IMHO one useful concept to be added to D&D adventures to make them Epic is divinity, either because the PC characters have it (or are trying to gain it) or because they directly interact with it as allies or enemies. Where exactly that starts, cannot be standardized: is a half-angel PC already divine? Isn't a 1st level Cleric already interacting with its deity? It's blurred and debatable, but this also points out that "level" can be a misleading concept.Ultimately, it depends on the "look & feel" of the story, the events, and the cast (PCs, friends and foes). There is a problem if you just resort to character abilities alone to make the PCs stand out as "epic". D&D has a certain tendency of introducing powers first with the NPC/monsters, several levels before the PCs can get them, thanks to both rule systems and story tropes that generally encourage "climax fights" against a single (with sidekicks at best) foe significantly more powerful than the PCs. So by the time you get those powers, you've already seen them, and your foes always have better ones because the bar keeps being raised. And on the other hand, characters like those in The Lord of the Rings (a possible fantasy epic) hardly have any special powers at all (excluding Gandalf and a few others). It is the story around them, and their deeds determining its outcome, which makes them "epic" (but notice one thing: they feel epic only when the story is over... during, "epic" is not exactly how they feel). Thus IMHO a better approach to create an "epic" campaign is trying to focus on the story to provide the epic-ness. Have the PCs engage in quests that take a long time and cover a long distance, face foes that are ancient, colossal in size (individually or as a horde), or defy the physical (such as deities et similia), and decide the outcome of events with long-term and large-scale effects, but most importantly have patience. Being over the top helps, but doesn't always work if the story around it is too quick and thin. Just to say, if you have the PC meet in a tavern for 30th-level heroes, and go slay the God of Death or the King of Demons on the same night like it's an "epic heroes night out", that ain't going to feel epic at all... but if you build that up during e.g. 6 months of gaming, the chances that you nail the "epic feel" are better, even if the characters aren't even technically at "epic level" yet.</blockquote>

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