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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3037727" data-attributes="member: 141">I can hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth already: "You mean epic magic can't replicate a 2nd level spell!"  Although people will just correct your "oversight" and pencil in the mental stats after the physical ones in the fortify seed.  Especially ones who are fans of your story hour and want to emulate the spell that puts Mostin's intelligence into the stratosphere.  Another thing that I could see people trying to do is "epicify" a spell by converting it directly into a seed.  A true strike seed with a Spellcraft Prerequiste of 12, etc..  Your preamble invites this, and I'm curious how such efforts would play out, and what kinds of metaprinciples restraining such actions would be formulable. The math isn't that bad: If there's another rules block somewhere that sets out the CHI/RHO system, you can just say that the Challenge (CHI) of the monsters created can't be more than one quarter the power (RHO) of the caster.  Or use the Spellcraft Prerequisite in place of the caster's ECL.  Or something.  Upper Krust did something rather more complicated (involving disguised tables of logarithms) in his Challenging Challenge Ratings appendix to the Immortal's Handbook.  In fact, that's where I got the system from; I reverse engineered the tables and approximated the final result as the ratio of sums of squares.[sblock=Here's a quick and dirty version]List the CRs of the monsters in an encounter.  Square each CR.  Add them up.  That's the CHI (or challenge) of the encounter.  Now do the same thing with the ECLs of the PCs.  That's their RHO (or power).  Take CHI/RHO and multiply by 300 (or whatever number you wish).  That's the xp per character level that the PCs should get for defeating the encounter.  For a moderate encounter it will be 75. [/sblock]And elegance or not, I'd want to put a cap (probably based on character level rather than caster level) on how powerful created undead can be.  Or created anything.  Unless the mitigating factors are especially resistant to abuse, that is: I just don't think a mage should be creating beings substantially more powerful than he is.  It's like triple empowered simulacra; just a bad idea.</blockquote>

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