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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3045748" data-attributes="member: 141">I looked through the design goals you posted, and all I could find was this:I didn't take this as referring to specific numerical values.  A hypothetical auroch's strength which gives a +10 bonus and lasts for 1 minute per level is clearly based on bull's strength and works the same as bull's strength if game play necessitates a ruling.  It thus satisfies the requirement of transparency as stated.  If your intention is to follow the base spells a lot more closely, then you definitely need to revise the durations and components of the seeds to bring them into line.As for the rate I advanced them- well, a 5th level bull's strength that gives only +7 seemed too wimpy to me.  I guess it comes down to intuition: does owl's insight seem obviously overpowered?  If not, then why does auroch's strength?  I think I should change the progression so it only gives even bonuses, though.I don't know how best to deal with duration disparities.  Suppose I take your suggestion and change the save type to resistance.  Then we have a 6th level spell (admittedly not core, but useful to test our theories) that lasts 72 times as long as a 5th level spell to which it is otherwise identical.  You might feel ok about this, but I feel uneasy.  Yeah.  The entry-level version is only about +10.  I believe Upper_Krust pointed out that higher level spells are more than the sum of the metamagic feats used to reach them.  Higher level spells have higher DCs, higher damage caps, greater areas and longer durations than lower level spells.  The difference between a 7th level spell and a 3rd level spell is a lot more than can be bridged by 4 levels worth of metamagic feats.  In fact, I think that 1 spell level is more like 5 levels of metamagic feats.  Heightened, multiply extended, etc..  Still, even +5 levels of metamagic is not enough to extend a spell 71 times.Upper_Krust's epic spell system uses 10th and higher level spells.  The conversion rate with the ELH is roughly Spell level = 7 + (Spellcraft DC / 10).  I'm pegging your system (with generally lower numbers than the ELH) as Spell level = 6 + (Spellcraft DC / 6).  That USP 42 20-minute true strike would thus be a 13th level spell.  A character with 4 Improved Spell Capacity feats (and a 23 intelligence) could research and cast 20-minute true strike and memorize it in his 13th level spell slot.Upper_Krust is not good with deadlines (he'd be the first to admit this), and I wouldn't expect the Grimoire to be available any time soon.  Maybe in six months, maybe in a year.I was thinking of something like that.  There are already rule differences in place between benefical spells made to affect an area and spells that are harmful, so further tinkering wouldn't be inappropriate.  But the issue seems akin to changing durations from minutes to hours or making verdigris tsunami's cost less exorbitant; how do you increase a numerical quantity dramatically without drastically overpricing the spell?</blockquote>

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